08' VW GTI 2.0l FSI 5000 miles factory fill

[saaber1]

Hello, Here is a sample of factory fill for a 08 VW GTI 2.0 FSI Turbo. The right hand column is after vw's 1000 mile break in period while the left hand column is at VW's recommended 5000 mile first oil change. So it provides some data points for the question "should factory fill be changed out early?" It actually looks better than I expected. All comments welcome. Thanks!

Also 8 oz. of oil were consumed in one track day and replaced with GC, a couple ounces were removed for the blackstone sample at 1100 miles.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Unusually low fuel content for this type of engine. Makes you wonder why all the other 2.0 FSI engines couldn't fare as well.

 

[The Critic]

Is this the 2.0T FSI that has the spin-on filter and the timing chain, or is this the older style one with the timing belt and cartridge filter?

 

[saaber1]

It has the cartridge filter and belt. I believe they call the new engine with the chain the "TSI".

 

[Audi Junkie]

Nice work.

 

[INDYMAC]

It looks like your VW is breaking in nicely Saaber1. I'm impressed that you are starting to trend early too. But I couldn't help wondering why you told Blackstone you tracked the car. To me, that kind of takes oil analysis out of the game if you ever needed to use it for a warranty claim.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Unusually low fuel content for this type of engine. Makes you wonder why all the other 2.0 FSI engines couldn't fare as well.


Actually, there is indication in the analysis that fuel dilution is, in fact, quite high. The high Manganese level is the "tell".

 

[addyguy]

I don't get it - you're first results are from an 1100-mile initial run. Your next results are for a 5,000 mile run, but the total miles on unit is 5,000? Do they mean 6100 miles total on unit, OR is this only a 3900 mile run...?

 

[Finklejag]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I don't get it - you're first results are from an 1100-mile initial run. Your next results are for a 5,000 mile run, but the total miles on unit is 5,000? Do they mean 6100 miles total on unit, OR is this only a 3900 mile run...?


He didn't change the oil at 1,100 miles. He just took a small sample. The factory fill was in for the whole 5,000 miles.

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Unusually low fuel content for this type of engine. Makes you wonder why all the other 2.0 FSI engines couldn't fare as well.


Actually, there is indication in the analysis that fuel dilution is, in fact, quite high. The high Manganese level is the "tell".


There is manganese in gas? Aw geez, it's got the same physiological toxic effects as lead.. what's the obsession with having deadly heavy metals in fuel

 

[JoeFromPA]

Max - LGT.com?

We have toxic heavy metals all around us...it's all about density

Joe

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Unusually low fuel content for this type of engine. Makes you wonder why all the other 2.0 FSI engines couldn't fare as well.


Actually, there is indication in the analysis that fuel dilution is, in fact, quite high. The high Manganese level is the "tell".


If fuel dilution were high, wouldn't we also see a corresponding drop in viscosity and flashpoint though? What about the low fuel content? Burned off?

Another thing I would like to get poeple's thoughts on if possible is the new oil. I put in redline 5W40 because I am curious how that will do (I am aware it is not VW approved, thanks). One thing I did notice immediately is a dramatic increase in either how fast the turbo spools up or power. I say "either" because it just flat takes off much quicker and I can't define whether that is due to faster spooling but that is my guess. It is a large difference and not just "barely noticeable". However, I don't know if that is due to redline specifically or just the fact that the original factory fill was changed to a new oil.

I also expected the car to turn over faster when starting and be smoother overall (because those are two things that happened to my boxster when switching to redline 5W40 from M10W40) but neither of those happened. Thanks very much for all input.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
If fuel dilution were high, wouldn't we also see a corresponding drop in viscosity and flashpoint though?

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember people saying that Blackstone somehow calculates flashpoint from fuel dillution, so low fuel number will always correspond to high flash point in their reports. That's one of the reasons why people use other labs such as Dyson.

 

[glennc]

My impression was that all labs calculated fuel dilution from flashpoint, but that they have different methods for flashpoint measurement, Blackstone's method giving a more favorable (somewhat overstated) result.

I think a 390 Blackstone flashpoint would indicate some amount of fuel, but not bad. Maybe saaber is right that there have been higher levels of fuel but that they'd been mostly burned off before the oil change.

Where does the manganese come from? Is it from the fuel itself?

 

[saaber1]

Found this thread of the same engine type that appears to show fuel dilution in 3 UOAs. However, the three UOAs had Manganese of only 3, 2, and 1 ppm respectively.

Also, my sample posted above showed no increase in Manganese from 1100 to 5000 miles. Shouldn't there be an increase if there is fuel dilution and Mn level is due to fuel dilution?

Scroll down a bit on the pages below to see the UOAs:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=758582&fpart=1

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=758582&fpart=2

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=758582&fpart=4

 

[Quattro Pete]

Actually, looking at all these other UOAs, including the ones posted on VWvortex, the fuel dillution is not as bad as I thought, in which case your engine seems to be pretty close to those other engines in that respect.

For some reason I thought these 2.0T engines generated pretty significant fuel dillution, but I guess I was mistaken.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
[
If fuel dilution were high, wouldn't we also see a corresponding drop in viscosity and flashpoint though? What about the low fuel content? Burned off?


Only the volatile components of fuel from dilution burn off. Other non-volatile elements are left behind. In many states, MMT is still added to fuel in small quantities, leaving behind trace manganese in the oil.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: glennc
My impression was that all labs calculated fuel dilution from flashpoint, but that they have different methods for flashpoint measurement, Blackstone's method giving a more favorable (somewhat overstated) result.


That's not quite correct. Some labs calculate fuel dilution from flashpoint measurement. Others measure fuel dilution using FTIR.

There are two ways to measure flashpoint, the open and the closed cup measurements. Blackstone uses the open cup method. Some other labs use the closed cup measurement. IMO, the closed cup method tends to be more sensitive and accurate than open cup.

 

[glennc]

Thanks. Your second paragraph is what I was alluding to. What is the FTIR method? More direct? Are there any labs used by folks commonly posting here that use it?

 

[RI_RS4]

FTIR = Fourier Transform Infrared spectroscopy.

When calibrated correctly, it performs a direct reading of fuel dilution.

Yes, there are labs that use this method, along with closed cup flashpoint.

Post on FTIR fuel vs closed cup flashpoint