M14 Rifle

[outrun]

If my goal is to learn long distance marksmanship is this a wise choice?

Or should I research bolt action rifles for this purpose?

This is not a criteria but I find the M14 style stock to be also visually asthetic not as aggressive in appearence like an AR/AK. The historical appeal also suites me.

All the anger online against the 5.56m round is it justified? I am more interested in the .308 winchester from all readings.

 

[Steve S]

The m1a is a really nice rifle years ago I used to have one .Do lots of studying about them ,they can be [made] super accurate.

 

[Korean_redneck]

I used the M14 when I was in the Navy. Our Gunners Mate told me that M14's are not very accurate in long range shooting.. I don't know why snipers used them.

 

[k1xv]

You can get a match grade Springfield Armory M14, but a super accurate one can run into some big bucks.

I have always enjoyed long range informal shooting with military surplus, but not old and worn out, Mauser 98 military bolt actions in 8 mm and 7.65 mm. Of course, surplus ammo was available cheap.

 

[Locomotive]

Outrun, an m-14 would be a good choice but it depends on what distances you are talking about and how much you want to spend. A Savage rifle in 308 with an accutrigger and a good scope will probably give you good results and still cost less than a Springfield m1-a or m-14. At 600 yards any of these rifles will produce kill shots to the body mass of a human any day of the week. The hard part is if the person pulling the trigger has the skills and TALENT to make those shots. Ok so you get a semi auto or a bolt rifle in 223. Up to 300 yards you will like the 223 but after that it begins to wane. Yes yes i know it can hit out to 600 meters plus but that is in reality out of its realm. Get a bolt action 308 and get into reloading. Spend some time with the rifle and find out what loads it likes to shoot. After a bit of time you will find that you will want more and or various features in a rifle so you will say hey i got to buy another one and it goes on from there. Trust me it is addictive. Good luck and keep us informed!!!

 

[outrun]

This is the site I read from. Correction is would be an M1 Rifle then.

product line:

http://springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles.shtml

http://springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-loaded.shtml

The SOCOM lines are beutiful too...you guys are right the match grades are at 2,000$ and the smiper M21's are 3,000+.

I prolly will stick with wooden if so.

What is "reloading?" I keep coming across this term. Do you mean hand filling cartridges with powder and 'warheads' at home?

I will look into Savage, online boards recommend some Savages over Remington due to cost.

www.mitchelsales.com

Has a Yugolslavian tanker mauser...my concern is on the 8mm cartridge I know little off. Again this rifle has the elegant lines of my style rifle.

 

[outrun]

sorry:

http://www.mitchellsales.com/

 

[Shannow]

I'd love an M1 or an M14, but our stupid Oz gun laws prohibit them.

I've a bolt action .223 (CZ527) that is very very accurate, and will hit a dinner plate out to 600 yards easily.

I agree with a bolt action .308, guys in our rifle club are getting sub 0.3MOA with a bit of load and barrel tuning in their long range single shots.

Only real advice that I can offer is don't start shooting with an inaccurate rifle. I see too many people join our club and buy a cheap rifle "just to see if I like it".

The rifle doesn't shoot well...they don't know whether they are at fault or their gear, they get despondent and leave.

(If possible, I get one of the good shooters to put the in question rifle over the bags, and fire some groups...if a struggling guy realises his equipment works, he shoots better...if he realises his gear is holding him back, he gets better gear).

 

[outrun]

We think alike Shannon. I read about the CZ527 last week and was impressed. The Czechs are amazing small arms makers. This .223 controversy has tainted me. I shall keep reading and asking yall questions.

 

[savvy]

An M14 is a VERY accurate weapon. If you buy a military surplus one......if you can find one, the throat will probably be eroded beyond use, the lands will be screwed up along with the crown and a weak gas return spring.

I'd stay away from semi-automatics, and para military rifles with quick target acquisition scopes. If you want to shoot weapons like that join the military.

A .308 in a good bolt gun would be a nice rifle. Because of the relatively slow moving bullet, the 308 shoots a high arc to the target, which will teach you a lot about ballistics and control. You can move up to a flatter shooting harder hitting rifle down the road once you have good shooting skills in place.

Shooting 101

1) Treat any weapon as if it is loaded.
2) Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3) Don't hold your breathe when taking the shot, shoot as you gently breath out.
4) Don't anticipate the shot
5) Learn to ' feel ' when you have hit your target without actually seeing the result.

 

[MolaKule]

I love my Savage .308 (7.62 mm) and it was very accurate right out of the box. Shot 0.6" or so at 100 yards with 150 grain factory ammo.

Killed two deer this past winter, one at 250 yards.

For longer range shooting, I would go with the 6.5 mm or 6.8 mm calibers with "reloads." The 6 mm series using VLD bullets are, in my opinion, the best for long range shooting.

Also see:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14.htm or

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/m14typeriflesd.htm

and

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m14.htm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle

 

[ALS]

If you want to know every thing you could ever know about the M14/M1A's head over to M14 Forums

If your looking for a real long distance weapon then give Iron Brigade Armory a call.
They have several weapons on the ground right now in the sand box. On top of that they've got an order for a few hundred Sniper rifles for the U.S. Army. It seems they have much better quality control than the U.S. Army's in house armorer's can produce.
So if your looking for a 1000 yard Sniper rifle you can't beat IBA. BTW they are not cheap and weapons are all built by U.S.M.C. trained 2112 Armorer's. I would say at least 90% of the guns coming out of their shop are for LE, Military, and Government use. There are very few of their guns in civilian hands. I've got three

And the Pittsburgh SWAT team only has one.

Plus all three of mine are prettier.

 

[savvy]

From the time of the initial pressure pulse when the firing pin hits the primer, to the event where the projectile hits the target....... three distinct and separate types of ballistics have taken place.

1) Internal ballistics: the science of what is happening inside the chamber and barrel from the moment of the pressure spike to the moment the bullet leaves the muzzle. Rapidly expanding gas, heat, friction, acceleration,stress, rotation, travel and exit.

2) External ballistics: the science of the external forces which act on the projectile. Gravity, wind currents, drag, temperature, altitude, humidity, angle, and even the Coriolis effect.

3) Terminal ballistics: the science of what happens when a projectile releases it's energy in a target.

Although you could be a world class shooter and not have an in depth understanding of internal, external, and terminal ballistics, having an understanding of each will empower you with the knowledge to take any shot with confidence.

How deep does one delve into the realm of becoming one with your weapon ?! Although I haven't fired a weapon in over 14 years, I started shooting at age 5. At age 18 in 1969, I was one of the highest rated shooters in the Marine Corps. I was designated to become a sniper, and took out $10,000 of extra life insurance. At the last minute, my orders were changed and I was sent to the Presidio in Monterey to study the Vietnamese language. I probably wouldn't be here today had I carried a Remington 700 in a camouflage case.

A new sniper that got in country the same day I did was sent with me to a unit in the bush. After being in country three weeks, he lost both legs from a command detonated bomb. Luckily I was just climbing out of a B52 bomb crater when the explosion happened. My head was below ground lever so the shrapnel passed over my head. I shot an M14.

 

[416Rigby]

CZ's are fine rifles. Try a CZ-550 in 6.5x55mm, it should give you some impressive results. Or, for cheap, you can get a Schmidt-Rubin mil-surp rifle in 7.5mm that will also give good results.

 

[Hirev]

To learn long distance marksmanship a bolt action 308 heavy barrel with a very good scope would be my 1st choice. A good scope is darn near worth its weight in gold in long rage shooting.

The Remington and Savage HB bolt guns do well. Generally to get the most out of any 308 handloading with Sierra Match bullets would be a step in the right direction. As your skill level increases you may want to thing about going to a high quality aftermarket barrel.

M1As can be made to shoot well but it takes big bucks and they require much more maintenance. In the end M1A still do not compare to a good bolt gun for extreme accuracy.

BTW, M14s are select fire and M1As are the semi auto civilian version of the weapon.

 

[Dark Jedi]

if going for long distance shooting. I would go with bolt actions. semi autos are fine but more moving parts and more things can go wrong.

ever think about the 300 magnum series bolt action rifles. my cousin had one with the thick barrel and set it up with the sniper kit. he said it was very accurate. but in the end its up to you what you want.

also dont go cheap with your scope. after all it can be your weakest link in the setup.

I have to disagree with its the gear that makes a bad shooter. it can have an effect but you have to have a natural talent for shooting. I was on the rifle team when I was in high school JROTC. we had worn out bolt action 22's. I was able to hit 9 out of 10 bullseyes on a bet. the last one I say cut the line but the commander said no. you have to have a feel for the weapon. we had some kids that couldnt shoot to save their lives. was it equipment maybe. but when we washed them out. got new guys with same rifles. they seemed to be shooting better than the previous people with the same rifles. I out shot one team that had slings and hooks and the top rifles. I out shot them with no slings or hooks and with a worn out rifle that was prob made in 1950's lol.

I use to take a BB gun when I was a kid and shoot 16oz coke bottles tops off with open sites. I will say I am better than the average person when it comes to shooting but I never kept up with it in my old age but I can still hit anything with a rifle. now a handgun is a different story. while I was in the air force I owned the M-16. could site it in in 5 shots. got marksman everytime I went for qualifying. they even wanted me to be an instructor at the range. but I liked my job a B-52 crew chief. but when I went to qual on the 38 I was amazed I couldnt hardly hit the target. this showed me that it depends on the person more than the weapon or gear for the weapon.

my cousin bought a smaller glock 40 cal for his backup weapon as he is a cop. he couldnt hit nothing with it. he said sights must be off or something. another cop said let me see it. and tore the targets up with it. handed it back to my cousin with a smile and said seems fine to me. a top quality gun but the weak point was the operator.

 

[savvy]

[ February 15, 2006, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: savvy ]

 

[savvy]

quote:

---

To learn long distance marksmanship a bolt action 308 heavy barrel with a very good scope would be my 1st choice. A good scope is darn near worth its weight in gold in long rage shooting.

---

I like the way Hirev thinks.

Let me emphasize a VERY good scope. Get into hand loading with Sierra 168 gr Match Kings. With good loading skills, good powder, primers, and brass...... your on your way.

The reason you don't want a match barrel now is because you'll just throw your money away. You couldn't shoot to the barrel's ability, and you'll wreck it trying to get your cleaning technique right. After you have acquired some good skill, then have a match barrel put on, or have a rifle built to your specs on the action of your choice.

 

[outrun]

What is "headspace," I see this term alot when speaking of rifles and gunsmithing online.

 

[Shannow]

outrun,
headspace is the "clearance" between the cartridge and the chamber, that is, the amount of movement that the case can make from the bolt face to it's furthest forward position in the chamber.

A typical rimless headspaces against the shoulder, and rimmed and belted typically headspace against the rim/belt.

Too great a distance, and the cartridge can move forward under pressure from the firing pin, reach it's maximum travel before finally discharging. The pressure can then cause the case to grip the chamber (due to pressure), and then sets the base back to the bolt, stretching the case, and causing (ultimately) the case to come apart.

Another issue is that this "slop" can cause projectiles to be misaligned with the barrel. Have a look at the cases of some rimfires, and you'll see a consistent pattern of scorch marks on the case mouth, showing that the eccentric blow of the firing pin cocks the case in the chamber.