Who has better base stock 5w40 delo or rotella?
- Thread starter Sealbilly
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dnewton3
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As soon as you do a credible job of defining what "better" means to you, you'll be able to find the answer for yourself.
And - why does it matter? Lubes we use in application are NOT just about the base stock. Every bit as important, if not more so, is the add-pack.
Finally - mostly importantly is what results do they produce? As long as a lube is providing wear-protection and "cleaning" and "cooling" to a level that the OEM requires, why would a base stock matter in the decision? Oh ... that's right ... uninformed bias mistakenly placed at the foot of some unknown lube god.
And - why does it matter? Lubes we use in application are NOT just about the base stock. Every bit as important, if not more so, is the add-pack.
Finally - mostly importantly is what results do they produce? As long as a lube is providing wear-protection and "cleaning" and "cooling" to a level that the OEM requires, why would a base stock matter in the decision? Oh ... that's right ... uninformed bias mistakenly placed at the foot of some unknown lube god.
They both seem like fine lubricants. Delo markets some lower viscosities meeting sn requiremts while rotella has limited that and is no longer seeking sn for gas engines.
They both have good resources of formulaters, blending plants and feedstock. Meaning you can enjoy a consistent performance from the oil that meets your needs and distribution is simplified with online shopping.
They both have good resources of formulaters, blending plants and feedstock. Meaning you can enjoy a consistent performance from the oil that meets your needs and distribution is simplified with online shopping.
My guess is they use identical base stock. It is the add pack that gets blended in that would make any substantive difference.
Rotella T6 has GTL base stock derived from natural gas. It is classified by the API as a group III because natural gas comes from the earth. However, its performance is greater than other group III base oils, and is closer to PAOs and esters, so GTLs are referred to as group III+. I personally believe that it should be moved to group V or have its own group for GTLs.
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
Rotella T6 has GTL base stock derived from natural gas. It is classified by the API as a group III because natural gas comes from the earth. However, its performance is greater than other group III base oils, and is closer to PAOs and esters, so GTLs are referred to as group III+. I personally believe that it should be moved to group V or have its own group for GTLs.
Please learn the actual definitions of base stock groups, not what you imagine them to be.
Then learn from API 1509 Appendix E why they are defined in the first place.
Rotella T6 has GTL base stock derived from natural gas. It is classified by the API as a group III because natural gas comes from the earth. However, its performance is greater than other group III base oils, and is closer to PAOs and esters, so GTLs are referred to as group III+. I personally believe that it should be moved to group V or have its own group for GTLs.
Please learn the actual definitions of base stock groups, not what you imagine them to be.
Then learn from API 1509 Appendix E why they are defined in the first place.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
if you wanted to run two intervals on the OLM (have bypass filter) which would you use?
"Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1."
All group I, II, and III base oils are refined from crude oil. Group III+ oils (GTLs), are derived from natural gas. Group III base oils meet the definition above and they all come from the EARTH, like I said before.
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1."
All group I, II, and III base oils are refined from crude oil. Group III+ oils (GTLs), are derived from natural gas. Group III base oils meet the definition above and they all come from the EARTH, like I said before.
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
"Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1."
All group I, II, and III base oils are refined from crude oil. Group III+ oils (GTLs), are derived from natural gas. Group III base oils meet the definition above and they all come from the EARTH, like I said before.
There is no such thing as Group III+ base stock, even though entities sometimes use that designation it does not exist in API 1509 Appendix E. But even when using that designation it isn't only GTL products that are "Group III+". Other high VI base stocks that aren't a Group IV or V also carry that unofficial designation. For example, Visom was not GTL but it was called Group III+ by ExxonMobil:
https://www.exxonmobil.com/english-GB/Basestocks/pds/GLXXVisom-Series
The actual (not imagined) definitions in API 1509 Appendix E for the different groups does not use the word "earth" anywhere, nor do they indicate the origin of the material. Only those material specifications that are listed in the document are relevant to the purpose of API 1509 Appendix E.
Quote:
E.1.2.1
A base stock is a lubricant component that is produced by a single manufacturer to the same specifications (independent of feed source or manufacturer’s location); that meets the same manufacturer’s specification; and that is identified by a unique formula, product identification number, or both. Base stocks may be manufactured using a variety of different processes including but not limited to distillation, solvent refining, hydrogen processing, oligomerization, esterification, and rerefining. Rerefined stock shall be substantially free from materials introduced through manufacturing, contamination, or previous use.
"Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1."
All group I, II, and III base oils are refined from crude oil. Group III+ oils (GTLs), are derived from natural gas. Group III base oils meet the definition above and they all come from the EARTH, like I said before.
There is no such thing as Group III+ base stock, even though entities sometimes use that designation it does not exist in API 1509 Appendix E. But even when using that designation it isn't only GTL products that are "Group III+". Other high VI base stocks that aren't a Group IV or V also carry that unofficial designation. For example, Visom was not GTL but it was called Group III+ by ExxonMobil:
https://www.exxonmobil.com/english-GB/Basestocks/pds/GLXXVisom-Series
The actual (not imagined) definitions in API 1509 Appendix E for the different groups does not use the word "earth" anywhere, nor do they indicate the origin of the material. Only those material specifications that are listed in the document are relevant to the purpose of API 1509 Appendix E.
Quote:
E.1.2.1
A base stock is a lubricant component that is produced by a single manufacturer to the same specifications (independent of feed source or manufacturer’s location); that meets the same manufacturer’s specification; and that is identified by a unique formula, product identification number, or both. Base stocks may be manufactured using a variety of different processes including but not limited to distillation, solvent refining, hydrogen processing, oligomerization, esterification, and rerefining. Rerefined stock shall be substantially free from materials introduced through manufacturing, contamination, or previous use.
And as an answer to your PM, the GTL base oils are put into Group III because they meet the requirements for that designation. If the material properties of the GTL base oil did not meet those requirements then it wouldn't be placed there regardless of the material origin.
"Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1." -from API 1509 Appendix E
Visom and GTL contain greater than 90 percent saturates and less than 0.03 percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than 120, according to the official definition. Don't group V base oils also meet and exceed this definition? If so, then why aren't Visom and GTL in group V? This is because they are refined from natural sources and aren't created in a lab like PAOs and esters.
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1." -from API 1509 Appendix E
Visom and GTL contain greater than 90 percent saturates and less than 0.03 percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than 120, according to the official definition. Don't group V base oils also meet and exceed this definition? If so, then why aren't Visom and GTL in group V? This is because they are refined from natural sources and aren't created in a lab like PAOs and esters.
And to answer Sealbilly's question:
Chevron Delo 5W-40 base oil is their "Isosyn Advanced Technology" which is highly refined group III oil.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/SDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=426057&docFormat=PDF
Chevron Delo 5W-40 base oil is their "Isosyn Advanced Technology" which is highly refined group III oil.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/SDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=426057&docFormat=PDF
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
Visom and GTL contain greater than 90 percent saturates and less than 0.03 percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than 120, according to the official definition. Don't group V base oils also meet and exceed this definition? If so, then why aren't Visom and GTL in group V? This is because they are refined from natural sources and aren't created in a lab like PAOs and esters.
What is the purpose of your word salad to try and get the group designation changed somehow? You do understand the reason why API 1509 Appendix E exists, right? It is for base stock interchange guidance for blenders and formulators, not to indicate the overall "quality" of a finished oil. So within that proper confine it would not be allowed for formulators to utilize a correctly defined Group V base stock to be used as an interchange for a Group III product.
You do what most everyone on here does and try and somehow extend the actual purpose of API 1509 Appendix E into a global "quality indicator" for a finished oil when that is not the purpose of that document. GTL products, like other Group III base stocks are composed of the same type of molecules and have the same general properties as other Group III base stocks, and within the confines of API 1509 Appendix E may be interchanged as indicated. This is relevant to your second PM to me.
Visom and GTL contain greater than 90 percent saturates and less than 0.03 percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than 120, according to the official definition. Don't group V base oils also meet and exceed this definition? If so, then why aren't Visom and GTL in group V? This is because they are refined from natural sources and aren't created in a lab like PAOs and esters.
What is the purpose of your word salad to try and get the group designation changed somehow? You do understand the reason why API 1509 Appendix E exists, right? It is for base stock interchange guidance for blenders and formulators, not to indicate the overall "quality" of a finished oil. So within that proper confine it would not be allowed for formulators to utilize a correctly defined Group V base stock to be used as an interchange for a Group III product.
You do what most everyone on here does and try and somehow extend the actual purpose of API 1509 Appendix E into a global "quality indicator" for a finished oil when that is not the purpose of that document. GTL products, like other Group III base stocks are composed of the same type of molecules and have the same general properties as other Group III base stocks, and within the confines of API 1509 Appendix E may be interchanged as indicated. This is relevant to your second PM to me.
Sucked out of the ground are groups I-III. Created in a lab are groups IV and V.
I am not arguing about the quality or performance of the oils.
I am not arguing about the quality or performance of the oils.
Originally Posted By: wemay
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29113/base-oil-groups
Nice and simple explanation!
Respectfully,
Pajero!
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29113/base-oil-groups
Nice and simple explanation!
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
"Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1."
All group I, II, and III base oils are refined from crude oil. Group III+ oils (GTLs), are derived from natural gas. Group III base oils meet the definition above and they all come from the EARTH, like I said before.
I think you are trying to differentiate between naturally occurring vs human engineering?
"Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03
percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified in
Table E-1."
All group I, II, and III base oils are refined from crude oil. Group III+ oils (GTLs), are derived from natural gas. Group III base oils meet the definition above and they all come from the EARTH, like I said before.
I think you are trying to differentiate between naturally occurring vs human engineering?
I am differentiating between the sources used to make different base oils. Crude oil, natural gas, or molecules created in a lab.
Human engineering is used to refine oils or create them in a lab.
Human engineering is used to refine oils or create them in a lab.
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
I am differentiating between the sources used to make different base oils. Crude oil, natural gas, or molecules created in a lab.
Human engineering is used to refine oils or create them in a lab.
Okay sure. But that is neither the scope nor the purpose of API 1509 Appendix E. You are free to contact the API and inform then that their document is either inadequate or incorrect
I am differentiating between the sources used to make different base oils. Crude oil, natural gas, or molecules created in a lab.
Human engineering is used to refine oils or create them in a lab.
Okay sure. But that is neither the scope nor the purpose of API 1509 Appendix E. You are free to contact the API and inform then that their document is either inadequate or incorrect
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