Hyundai hybrid beats Toyota Prius

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Wow! Assuming this is true and real world validated, its excellent.

I know with my HAH, I can get nearly 60 in the real world... but heat use is the greatest factor, as its easy to go below EPA if not careful, if heat use forces the engine on more.

My parents have gotten tanks >>60 in their prius.

So my concern is really if Hyundai returns in the real world. I see it as viable, as ive lived tanks with those sorts of numbers... but the variables like heat has a huge effect.


My Prius(not plug-in)rarely gets under 60 MPG on a tank. I just filled up yesterday @ over 400 miles and MPGs were just over 62, that was about 50/50 highway and surface streets. Same miles during the summer will be in the mid to upper 60 MPG range. These are actual MPGs, not what the car's MFD shows. I've even seen over 70 MPGs combined at times.

 

[veryHeavy]

How fast do you drive your Prius on the highway? (just curious). The official test shows only 48 combined MPG, whereas the Hyundai Ioniq Blue is +10 higher.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
How fast do you drive your Prius on the highway? (just curious). The official test shows only 48 combined MPG, whereas the Hyundai Ioniq Blue is +10 higher.


I usually drive 5 over the posted limit or 80 max. We went on a road trip this past summer from Arizona to Minnesota, then to Wyoming and back to Arizona (over 3500 miles)and averaged just over 58 MPG for the entire trip.

 

[veryHeavy]

58 mpg is hard to believe. When I rented a Prius for testing I very carefully tracked its MPG at different speeds. With cruise set at 75, it only scored 45 MPG.

In order to get anywhere near 58 miles per gallon, I had to slow the car to 60 mph.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
58 mpg is hard to believe. When I rented a Prius for testing I very carefully tracked its MPG at different speeds. With cruise set at 75, it only scored 45 MPG.

In order to get anywhere near 58 miles per gallon, I had to slow the car to 60 mph.


Beleive it, the new Prius is amazing. What year did you rent?
Here's a pic from my MFD I took today. Actual MPGs will be about 1 or 2 less than whats shown. I never reset the trip meter after my last fill-up. MPGs would have been well over 60 but my trip home was over 100 miles that day, mostly up hill. Today's miles were about 50/50 but highway speeds were only 65. That 66.4 would have been about 70 if outside temps were warmer.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: sw99
Nice, as long at they don't fudge the numbers like in previous models...



From the reports on fuelly it appears they are on par with the previous models.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/ioniq

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
58 mpg is hard to believe. When I rented a Prius for testing I very carefully tracked its MPG at different speeds. With cruise set at 75, it only scored 45 MPG.

In order to get anywhere near 58 miles per gallon, I had to slow the car to 60 mph.



My parents drive 55-65 at the limit to maximize mpgs. With no heat use, Ive personally seen 69 mpg tanks (computer and calculated).

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: sw99
Nice, as long at they don't fudge the numbers like in previous models...



From the reports on fuelly it appears they are on par with the previous models.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/ioniq


Since 2017 has been winter, heat is going to drag it down...

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: Skid
For hybrids, the critical questions are (1) how long does the battery last, and (2) what is the replacement cost?

If one car's battery lasts 200k and costs $3k to replace, that's 1.5 cents per mile.
If another car's battery lasts 70k and costs $7k, that's 10 cents per mile.

I know someone who got screwed on a hybrid. I won't name the manufacturer. But, he bought used and did a little Ubering and found out (a) warranty was not transferable and (b) commercial use voids the warranty anyway. The 70k/$7k was his actual number.


Most commercial uses are excluded per the owners manual in any privately bought vehicle.


You do realize there are first generation Prius around with the original batteries? Toyota for one-considers the battery pack will last the life of the vehicle.

 

[UG_Passat]

Are you going to believe Hyundai's fuel economy numbers? They have been caught overstating their MPG numbers before.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Are you going to believe Hyundai's fuel economy numbers? They have been caught overstating their MPG numbers before.
Which makes it even more believable now, since they don't want to be caught lying and getting fined by the government.

Besides, I thought the EPA is what states the mpg numbers, not the manufacturer?

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Besides, I thought the EPA is what states the mpg numbers, not the manufacturer?

Nope.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-truth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates
Quote:
While the public mistakenly presumes that this federal agency is hard at work conducting complicated tests on every new model of truck, van, car, and SUV, in reality, just 18 of the EPA’s 17,000 employees work in the automobile-testing department in Ann Arbor, Michigan, examining 200 to 250 vehicles a year, or roughly 15 percent of new models. As to that other 85 percent, the EPA takes automakers at their word—without any testing—accepting submitted results as accurate.


Add me to the skeptic camp here on the real-world performance (both in economy and reliability) of these new Hyundai hybrids. We will have to wait and see, but Hyundai has been behind the curve on Hybrids in the past. I was active on Hyundai message boards when the first Sonata hybrid was released and that car was half-baked and problematic.

 

[Nick1994]

If it were proven reliable, a Hyundai hybrid is what I'd buy. Lifetime battery warranty.

But I don't believe in hybrids to save money, so there goes that idea.

 

[Jetronic]

8 years or 120k miles battery warranty in Europe, whichever comes first.

 

[KevinP]

I just bought the Ioniq. I have the Limited Trim (upper end) with the larger 225/45/17 tires/wheels and I still get about 60 mpg with reasonable driving habits. Your MPGs go down significantly in a hybrid (all hybrids) in cold weather. It is about the same by percentage as a normal internal combustion engine (no electrical drivetrain) vehicle but because the MPG is higher it seems more drastic.

Oh... and some guy set the official fuel economy record crossing the USA with both the Niro (Kia version) achieving 74 MPG coast to coast and over 80 MPG when he did it with a stock Ioniq. That is using hypermiling techniques but goes to show you what is possible with the platform.

The Toyota probably has better efficiency in town, the Ioniq has the advantage on the highway due to the differences in the design. Both are close enough to each other that it comes down to personal choice. The Ioniq can be bought for about $20K in the base trim (which is still nicely appointed) so it competes in price with any compact car, let alone just a Prius. Run the math of the cost of fuel savings per year and it no longer is just an environmental statement.

The engineering is impressive. Hyundai is a first-class manufacture. The Koreans no longer take a back seat to anyone in engineering and manufacturing a premium product.

 

[Spector]

Owning one hybrid and not putting a normal amount of miles on it I am now thinking that the long term savings are not there unless the battery has a lifetime warranty. For me I can keep a non hynrid/elec car easily 10 + years with normal gas engine maintenance but having to replace a battery pack kills the savings a hybrid has. daughter replaced battery in her Prius around $2,500and 10 years (Toyota only gives a 1 year warranty on a replacement battery) but quotes on mine are closer to $4-5,000. I have two years left on my battery warranty only 60,000 on the odometer but fear that this car will never see 10 years.

So, a lifetime warranty on the battery would have to be a must for me if a hybrid or plug in is in my future.

As to MPG, I currently get around 44 mpg overall (2012 Lincoln MKZ) but that is mostly non highway and really conservative driving. Summer heat and winter cold have a huge effect on the MPG and I have to drive at least 10 miles to even get close to 40 in the winter and the A/C in the summer can drop the MPG by 5+ MPG. Further I live in a pretty mild climate compared to a Northeast or a Floraida Hybrids ideal temps are 50-80 degrees, outside of that the MPG for me really suffers. The one major thing I like about mine is the fuel tank capacity, 17.5 gallons which gives me around a 700 mile range unlike the Prius etc with 10-13 gallon tanks

 

[KevinP]

They are still not the cheapest solution in many situations. I could have bought an Elantra for about $4-5K less comparably equipt.

For me, I drive about 25,000 miles annually and I run a vehicle about 150,000 miles (6-years). Projected over that time at current fuel prices the Ioniq is $5455 cheaper in fuel over the Eco trim available in the Elantra assuming both hit their EPA rated numbers and that fuel prices stay at current levels. The Ioniq has a few more maintenance items so I think they are comparable in cost.

The battery is warranted for "life" for the original owner in the Hyundai. It remains to be seen how well they stand behind that guarantee and how needed it is. Hyundai is sourcing a different battery than has been used in the Prius. Presumably, they have improved lifespan.

But my point is that they are "comparable". Which makes more sense for an individual will depend on where you live and how you use the vehicle.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Are you going to believe Hyundai's fuel economy numbers? They have been caught overstating their MPG numbers before.
Which makes it even more believable now, since they don't want to be caught lying and getting fined by the government.

Besides, I thought the EPA is what states the mpg numbers, not the manufacturer?




What was that? They don't want to be caught lying? Proof is in the pudding and it looks like from real world data that their proverbial pants are on fire. This doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[KevinP]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Are you going to believe Hyundai's fuel economy numbers? They have been caught overstating their MPG numbers before.
Which makes it even more believable now, since they don't want to be caught lying and getting fined by the government.

Besides, I thought the EPA is what states the mpg numbers, not the manufacturer?







Not quite... the 58 MPG Hyundai is an artifact of the EPA testing method. Other than about 50lbs of weight there is no difference between the SEL version and the Blue base version and their EPA ratings differ by about 4 MPG. The "Ultimate" version has 225/45/17 tires which isn't reflected in the EPA ratings either. They probably deduct 1-2 MPG versus a lower rolling resistance profile and that isn't reflected in either the EPA ratings nor is there enough data in the Fuelly information to separate out the impact. I'm sure Hyundai played the system but that is business.

Probably the biggest impact on MPG is driver behavior and you cannot assume that the distribution of Hyundai drivers = the typical Prius driver. Different demographic groups behave differently and it impacts the "real world" data. Also geographic location and driving conditions would need to be teased out of the data to have a meaningful comparison.

No matter how you slice it they are pretty evenly matched from an efficiency standpoint though.