Downside of using 0W-40 v.s 5W-30?
- Thread starter dole
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Hi Dole,
What car is it for ?
The M1 10W30 (SN & GF-5) is quite a different oil compared to the M1 0W40 (SN & A3/B4). The first is typically for American and Japanese cars, while the second is for European cars. So it depends on what you drive.
M1 10W30, KV100 = 10.1 cSt, HTHS = 3.0 cP.
M1 0W40, KV100 = 12.9 cSt, HTHS = 3.6 cP.
To be honest, I like the regular M1 5W30 as it's between the two
M1 5W30, KV100 = 11.0 cSt, HTHS = 3.1 cP.
However my real favourite is M1 High Mileage oil
M1 10W30 HM, KV100 = 12.1 cSt, HTHS = 3.5 cP.
This gives the most High Temperature High Shear Viscosity (HTHS) for the least Kinematic Viscosity at 100deg C (KV100), which means less polymer VII improvers to shear.
What car is it for ?
The M1 10W30 (SN & GF-5) is quite a different oil compared to the M1 0W40 (SN & A3/B4). The first is typically for American and Japanese cars, while the second is for European cars. So it depends on what you drive.
M1 10W30, KV100 = 10.1 cSt, HTHS = 3.0 cP.
M1 0W40, KV100 = 12.9 cSt, HTHS = 3.6 cP.
To be honest, I like the regular M1 5W30 as it's between the two
M1 5W30, KV100 = 11.0 cSt, HTHS = 3.1 cP.
However my real favourite is M1 High Mileage oil
M1 10W30 HM, KV100 = 12.1 cSt, HTHS = 3.5 cP.
This gives the most High Temperature High Shear Viscosity (HTHS) for the least Kinematic Viscosity at 100deg C (KV100), which means less polymer VII improvers to shear.
In relative terms, xW30 is optimised for Fuel Economy and 0W40 is optimised for protection.
Overall this 0W40 has higher performance capability than 10W30.
Question is, does the vehicle mechanical conditions, operating parameters (and ambients) require 0W40 ?
Downsides ..... yes, only if engine consumes oil and with TWC.
Overall this 0W40 has higher performance capability than 10W30.
Question is, does the vehicle mechanical conditions, operating parameters (and ambients) require 0W40 ?
Downsides ..... yes, only if engine consumes oil and with TWC.
Any 30 grade oil that is Euro A3 rated requires a HTHS of 3.5 or more. There are many of those oils in Australia.
A 30 grade oil that is ILSAC GF-5 rated with have a typical HTHS of 2.9 to 3.1 and there are many of those in North America.
OK, does a Euro A3 oil like M1 0W40 protect more ? Answer is yes if your car needs this level of oil, but no if it's not required.
The oil keeps the metal parts apart without wear, but once they touch then wear starts. If your car needs a high HTHS oil to keep the parts apart, then you definitely need it. But if your cars is OK with a thinner oil, then all a thicker oil does is move them further apart (so to speak), it does not protect more as they are already not touching. However it does give a bigger margin for error when there is higher stress on your engine e.g. Towing, Racing, high temperature and maybe longer oil change intervals (talking shear here, not acid fighting TBN). The cost of a thicker oil is a bit more viscous drag and therefore small fuel consumption increase.
Some consider a thicker oil safer, while others consider it a waste of fuel.
A good friend of mine runs nothing but M1 5W50 in everything and has almost 400,000 trouble free KM on his Toyota, and still zero oil consumption. If he did the same distance on M1 0W20, would the results be as good ? Maybe yes, but my friend wasn't prepared to take the risk to find out. Others here have run 20 grade oils for decades, even when the car spec'd a heavier oil.
Follow your owners manual, or find your own personal comfort zone.
A 30 grade oil that is ILSAC GF-5 rated with have a typical HTHS of 2.9 to 3.1 and there are many of those in North America.
OK, does a Euro A3 oil like M1 0W40 protect more ? Answer is yes if your car needs this level of oil, but no if it's not required.
The oil keeps the metal parts apart without wear, but once they touch then wear starts. If your car needs a high HTHS oil to keep the parts apart, then you definitely need it. But if your cars is OK with a thinner oil, then all a thicker oil does is move them further apart (so to speak), it does not protect more as they are already not touching. However it does give a bigger margin for error when there is higher stress on your engine e.g. Towing, Racing, high temperature and maybe longer oil change intervals (talking shear here, not acid fighting TBN). The cost of a thicker oil is a bit more viscous drag and therefore small fuel consumption increase.
Some consider a thicker oil safer, while others consider it a waste of fuel.
A good friend of mine runs nothing but M1 5W50 in everything and has almost 400,000 trouble free KM on his Toyota, and still zero oil consumption. If he did the same distance on M1 0W20, would the results be as good ? Maybe yes, but my friend wasn't prepared to take the risk to find out. Others here have run 20 grade oils for decades, even when the car spec'd a heavier oil.
Follow your owners manual, or find your own personal comfort zone.
Originally Posted By: dole
In fact, what I want to know is, regardless of engine type Jpn or Europe, does 40 provide better protection nontheless?
The answer is No. If your engine specs a 30 weight oil say 10w30, you can run 0w30. You can use 0w40, I have, with very minimal impact to mpg so to say 0w40 protects better is a blanket statement and is false. For your climate you shouldnt have any issues using it but if the only reason you are thinking of using it is that you think it protects better, it would be very difficult to prove. 30 weight will protect your engine just fine.
In fact, what I want to know is, regardless of engine type Jpn or Europe, does 40 provide better protection nontheless?
The answer is No. If your engine specs a 30 weight oil say 10w30, you can run 0w30. You can use 0w40, I have, with very minimal impact to mpg so to say 0w40 protects better is a blanket statement and is false. For your climate you shouldnt have any issues using it but if the only reason you are thinking of using it is that you think it protects better, it would be very difficult to prove. 30 weight will protect your engine just fine.
Originally Posted By: SR5
A good friend of mine runs nothing but M1 5W50 in everything and has almost 400,000 trouble free KM on his Toyota, and still zero oil consumption. If he did the same distance on M1 0W20, would the results be as good ? Maybe yes, but my friend wasn't prepared to take the risk to find out. Others here have run 20 grade oils for decades, even when the car spec'd a heavier oil.
Follow your owners manual, or find your own personal comfort zone.
Now just think how much money he would of saved on gas if he used 0w20 over 400k kms...lol..zero oil consumption?! I hope so, its thick as molasses! Of course in your climate it is likely fine..but when I used 5w50..the mpg hit was significant..about 12-15% less mpg compared to even 5w30. Granted Im not at 400k, only 230k kms but still no oil consumption and Ive mainly used 0w20..
A good friend of mine runs nothing but M1 5W50 in everything and has almost 400,000 trouble free KM on his Toyota, and still zero oil consumption. If he did the same distance on M1 0W20, would the results be as good ? Maybe yes, but my friend wasn't prepared to take the risk to find out. Others here have run 20 grade oils for decades, even when the car spec'd a heavier oil.
Follow your owners manual, or find your own personal comfort zone.
Now just think how much money he would of saved on gas if he used 0w20 over 400k kms...lol..zero oil consumption?! I hope so, its thick as molasses! Of course in your climate it is likely fine..but when I used 5w50..the mpg hit was significant..about 12-15% less mpg compared to even 5w30. Granted Im not at 400k, only 230k kms but still no oil consumption and Ive mainly used 0w20..
Yeah he's the sort of guy that wears a belt and braces, just incase.
But his car is done up for the bush with 'roo bar, roof racks, wide & noisy off-road tyres, and sometimes he hauls a quad too (for hunting). So I don't think oil viscosity is the source of his biggest hit on fuel economy.
I have tried to talk him down to a 40 grade, but he's not having a bar of it.
But his car is done up for the bush with 'roo bar, roof racks, wide & noisy off-road tyres, and sometimes he hauls a quad too (for hunting). So I don't think oil viscosity is the source of his biggest hit on fuel economy.
I have tried to talk him down to a 40 grade, but he's not having a bar of it.
IMO the new 0w40 FS formula is getting close to a universal oil for engines spec or xw30 and with its higher zinc levels provides better protection.
It may not be as ideal as it once was for Euro cars but for US and Japanese cars it might turn out to be an absolute go to oil.
It should provide excellent cold start protection as well as in all conditions with 1100 PPM zinc. Aluminum bearings don't seem to require the zinc but the old tri metal bearings sure like it as well as the cams (yes even roller not just to the same extent).
As for the argument that the higher level of zinc will damage the cat AFAIK the Euro cars that spec this oil have to warranty their cats for the same amount of time when sold in the USA.
Mobil 1 zinc levels
It may not be as ideal as it once was for Euro cars but for US and Japanese cars it might turn out to be an absolute go to oil.
It should provide excellent cold start protection as well as in all conditions with 1100 PPM zinc. Aluminum bearings don't seem to require the zinc but the old tri metal bearings sure like it as well as the cams (yes even roller not just to the same extent).
As for the argument that the higher level of zinc will damage the cat AFAIK the Euro cars that spec this oil have to warranty their cats for the same amount of time when sold in the USA.
Mobil 1 zinc levels
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: dole
In fact, what I want to know is, regardless of engine type Jpn or Europe, does 40 provide better protection nontheless?
The answer is No. If your engine specs a 30 weight oil say 10w30, you can run 0w30. You can use 0w40, I have, with very minimal impact to mpg so to say 0w40 protects better is a blanket statement and is false. For your climate you shouldnt have any issues using it but if the only reason you are thinking of using it is that you think it protects better, it would be very difficult to prove. 30 weight will protect your engine just fine.
The answer is maybe. If the only reason you are thinking of using it is that you think it protects better, that would be very difficult to disprove, and probably impossible, since "protection" is against potential threat as well as actual.
You may not need it, but it probably gives you an extra margin for, say, accidental lugging of the engine.
Like wearing two flak jackets.
Originally Posted By: dole
In fact, what I want to know is, regardless of engine type Jpn or Europe, does 40 provide better protection nontheless?
The answer is No. If your engine specs a 30 weight oil say 10w30, you can run 0w30. You can use 0w40, I have, with very minimal impact to mpg so to say 0w40 protects better is a blanket statement and is false. For your climate you shouldnt have any issues using it but if the only reason you are thinking of using it is that you think it protects better, it would be very difficult to prove. 30 weight will protect your engine just fine.
The answer is maybe. If the only reason you are thinking of using it is that you think it protects better, that would be very difficult to disprove, and probably impossible, since "protection" is against potential threat as well as actual.
You may not need it, but it probably gives you an extra margin for, say, accidental lugging of the engine.
Like wearing two flak jackets.
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I've used Rotella T6 5W 40 in I4 and V6 Camry engines for years, easy starts in winter, no worry in summer. You can save more gas keeping your tires properly inflated.
In motor oil:
As thin as possible as thick as necessary.
I'm sure a modified corvette would run on 0w20 if all you did was drive slowly around town.
Take the same car to the race track and you might need 15w50 if you dont have sufficient oil cooling.
Its really application and environment dependent.
There is no magical "yes it protects better every time" oil.
On the other hand if I was taking a high performance turbo subaru to the autocross track no way would I use standard 5w30 in it personally.
As thin as possible as thick as necessary.
I'm sure a modified corvette would run on 0w20 if all you did was drive slowly around town.
Take the same car to the race track and you might need 15w50 if you dont have sufficient oil cooling.
Its really application and environment dependent.
There is no magical "yes it protects better every time" oil.
On the other hand if I was taking a high performance turbo subaru to the autocross track no way would I use standard 5w30 in it personally.
While HTHS may keep parts apart to reduce wear, so does moly and titanium. And while a 0w40 may use a better base stock than a 5w30, it really still comes down the quality of the add pack in an oil that makes the significant difference most times.
And quite true... keeping tires inflated properly will do more for fuel economy.
And quite true... keeping tires inflated properly will do more for fuel economy.
The strict manual followers kill me on these kind of posts.
Apparently they feel compelled to believe anything but what the manual says as far as oil weight is a big No-No. Take a walk on the wild side, live outside the box. Nothing bad happens.
Apparently they feel compelled to believe anything but what the manual says as far as oil weight is a big No-No. Take a walk on the wild side, live outside the box. Nothing bad happens.
if scooter is air cooled I would use the 0-40 grade. Liquid cooled 10-30 would be fine.
Steve
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