Valvoline Maxlife Transmission fluid spec -UPDATED

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I noticed the rep didn't say change the fluid every 30k miles. Why not? If the Mercon V fluid shears to below sepc, such as 4.25 cSt in 30k miles, then he and Ford should be suggesting 30k changes.


Actually it was in the next sentence.

Originally Posted By: ford46guy
He said the Ford MV will keep its high viscosity to 30k miles under daily driving. Ford does not suggest any other fluids even for the most severe service, but rather a more frequent OCI.


I guess what I am asking is: Do the Ford Owners' or Service manuals recommend fluid changes ~ = 30k miles?

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I guess what I am asking is: Do the Ford Owners' or Service manuals recommend fluid changes ~ = 30k miles?


A few of them do.

When Valvoline refer to shearing of Mercon, do they mean Mercon V or Mercon?

It sounds like they're comparing against Mercon shearing and also about fluids from the 1980s.

Mercon V was introduced in 1997.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I guess what I am asking is: Do the Ford Owners' or Service manuals recommend fluid changes ~ = 30k miles?


A few of them do.

When Valvoline refer to shearing of Mercon, do they mean Mercon V or Mercon?

It sounds like they're comparing against Mercon shearing and also about fluids from the 1980s.

Mercon V was introduced in 1997.


The Valvoline-PQIA exchange was specifically addressing the old Mercon spec.

Even though Mercon V was introduced in 1997, it did not have, at the time, the optimized additive/base oil combo.

I have not seen a direct shear viscosity comparison between Mercon V and MaxLife or Dexron VI, but I would think Mercon V is not as shear stable as MaxLife or Dexron VI.

 

[DWC28]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

This is not meant to criticize Valvoline, but has anyone seen any proof of their statement that other ATFs shear more than Maxlife? I am familiar with many ATF formulas and I have not seen where Valvoline VII is any more shear stable than other majors.


What other fluids?

these oils shear down to between 4.8 and 5.2 cSt. Typical MERCON oils today continue to use the older technology.


We need to have several different brands of used ATF submitted on the oil analysis forum. That would provide some data and not biased speculation from Val and Luber.

 

[DWC28]

Look up patent 9,340,746 by Ford and Afton on low viscosity ATF and gear fatigue. Interesting. Seems like 5 cSt is the high for fuel economy.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: DWC28



We need to have several different brands of used ATF submitted on the oil analysis forum. That would provide some data and not biased speculation from Val and Luber.


Quote:
When the 6.8 cSt minimum specification was originally established in the 1980s it had to take into account that ATFs were formulated with lower quality base oils and additives than are available today. A 6.8 cSt minimum was needed to assure the viscosity remained sufficiently high while in use. In service, as simulated by the 20 hr KRL test, these oils shear down to between 4.8 and 5.2 cSt. Typical MERCON oils today continue to use the older technology. Conversely, MaxLife is formulated with synthetic base oils and the highest quality additives available today. Though it starts out at a lower viscosity it only shears down to 5.7 cSt in KRL. The greater viscosity stability, higher after shear viscosity, and superior chemistry of MaxLife means superior performance in MERCON applications.


They used the CEC L-45-A-99 (KRL) Test Method to determine the shear stability of polymer-containing lubricating oils, The test results allow prediction of in-service permanent viscosity loss, which is hardly inuendo and speculation.


Find a lab that does this CEC L-45-A-99 (KRL) test and submit all the fluids you can can find.

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Even though Mercon V was introduced in 1997, it did not have, at the time, the optimized additive/base oil combo.

I have not seen a direct shear viscosity comparison between Mercon V and MaxLife or Dexron VI, but I would think Mercon V is not as shear stable as MaxLife or Dexron VI.


This link says that Dex III shears 40% and Mercon V 19% in KRL20.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html

So a Mercon V starting at 7.5cst (as Motorcraft Mercon V is) would finish at 6.1cst, slightly higher than the 5.7cst of Maxlife.

Maxlife starts at 5.9 so dropping to 5.7 is only 3% or so which is fantastic.

 

[ford46guy]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Even though Mercon V was introduced in 1997, it did not have, at the time, the optimized additive/base oil combo.

I have not seen a direct shear viscosity comparison between Mercon V and MaxLife or Dexron VI, but I would think Mercon V is not as shear stable as MaxLife or Dexron VI.


This link says that Dex III shears 40% and Mercon V 19% in KRL20.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html

So a Mercon V starting at 7.5cst (as Motorcraft Mercon V is) would finish at 6.1cst, slightly higher than the 5.7cst of Maxlife.

Maxlife starts at 5.9 so dropping to 5.7 is only 3% or so which is fantastic.


It is fantastic but as the Ford hotline told me still below spec! Something like that ( I assume) would show right up in UOA and they would blame it.

I also checked the service manual, MV is a filled for life fluid but they also say 30K for severe or questionable service.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: ford46guy



It is fantastic but as the Ford hotline told me still below spec! Something like that ( I assume) would show right up in UOA and they would blame it.




I doubt it because,

Mercon V shearing: (7.5 cSt - 0.19X7.5 cSt) = 7.5 cSt - 1.425 cSt = 6.075 cSt

MaxLife Shearing: (5.91 cSt - 0.03X5.91) = 5.91 - 0.177 = 5.73 cSt.

Delta of shearing between Fluids = 0.35 cSt.

With a variance of 0.35 cSt, and also due to the variance of viscosity testing from the results of various Labs, FMC would not have a court case (IMHO) to deny a warranty based on viscosity loss.

 

[DWC28]

The Ford Spec for Mercon V is 6.0 cSt min. after 20 hours KRL

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: DWC28
The Ford Spec for Mercon V is 6.0 cSt min. after 20 hours KRL


The point is, with those variances I stated above, could you prove that I used MaxLife instead of Mercon V, and if so, how would go about proving it, assuming I testified for the owner and you testified for Ford?

 

[DWC28]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

The point is, with those variances I stated above, could you prove that I used MaxLife instead of Mercon V, and if so, how would go about proving it, assuming I testified for the owner and you testified for Ford?


No I have not tried to say Maxlife would not work. Only that it does not meet specifications where other product do. IMO DEXRON III will work in about any transmission.