There are too many variables in motorcycle design to use one standard for all motorcycles. Air cooled, water cooled, air/ oil cooled, shared sump, and separated sump. High pressure low volume, High volume low pressure. High hp low torque, high torque lower hp. Unlike cars which can generally get by on using the same wt oils, motorcycles have different needs. There are probably more motorcycles on the road nowadays then ever before, so the oil companies want to get a share of it. And the motorcycle dealers want their cut also. As motorcycle users / consumers, our job is to cut thru all the advertising hype and get to the real point and that is, what oils will REALLY do the job the best, and be the most cost efficient. When the cost of some of today's motorcycles cost as much or more then some cars sold today, you may not want to use dollar store oils in them. And will not own a vehicle long enough to see any advantage of using $16 a qt oil either.,
calling on the experts. diesel oils in bikes??
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Originally Posted By: bonjo
So back in time the motorcycle industry decided to create a new standard for oil suitable/ recommended for use in M/C.
I ask myself why.
Creating a new market for the benefit of the oil companies?
Adding a new level of confusion to using an M/C
or something else I cannot think of!
In the end I decided it is done for a good reason and I am happy to go along with it
Let's clarify, the Japanese motorcycle industry came up with standards for their motorcycles so if you have one, best listen to the manual on which oil to use and if you do, you may as well make sure to use a certified Jaso oil and not one claiming that standard.
USA motorcycles as well as some European require different oil.
So back in time the motorcycle industry decided to create a new standard for oil suitable/ recommended for use in M/C.
I ask myself why.
Creating a new market for the benefit of the oil companies?
Adding a new level of confusion to using an M/C
or something else I cannot think of!
In the end I decided it is done for a good reason and I am happy to go along with it
Let's clarify, the Japanese motorcycle industry came up with standards for their motorcycles so if you have one, best listen to the manual on which oil to use and if you do, you may as well make sure to use a certified Jaso oil and not one claiming that standard.
USA motorcycles as well as some European require different oil.
Germans Nr. 1 Motorcycle magazin "Motorrad" did a test of motorcycle oils.
http://www.motorradonline.de/motorradzubehoer/produkttest-motoroel.462849.html
The testers where surprised to find out that the ENI (Agip) and SHELL oils are almost like Diesel Oils.
http://www.motorradonline.de/motorradzubehoer/produkttest-motoroel.462849.html
The testers where surprised to find out that the ENI (Agip) and SHELL oils are almost like Diesel Oils.
This is one of those times when being able to read German, would come in handy.
Which is in no way being critical of the linked article, I just wish I could read it.
Which is in no way being critical of the linked article, I just wish I could read it.
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I recently considered trying deisal, as quite a few people reckon they have had good experience with it. I spoke with a guy I work with who used to race bikes and is a qualified engineer, and he's old so I figure he's seen alot. He suggested it was a bad idea for a couple of reasons that I thought merited consideration. One explaination was that modern oils are finely tuned towards specific uses. Gone are the days that due to limited technology a couple of oils were used for all purposes. These days, companies can literally design a markedly different oil for use in two entirely different engines, even for engines in different climates. Apparently companies can tailor an oil for a very exact use. He stated that because diesal engines operate very differently to a four stroke engine, the way the oil "washes" off a cylinder, the way the oil moves around the engine, the types of piston rings used, the metal within the engine, and even the oil pump. For a four stroke bike engine, he stated that it is literally oranges and apples. Air cooled, bigger tolerances, different bearings, different mechanics.
He pointed out that motorcycle specific oils are actually designed for their intended purpose. As companies can afford better and better technology, they have been able to literally tailor their oils. He suggested that if I went to synth, I would be getting the best protection.
He also pointed out that most bike riders will never come close to "pushing" their oil to the very limits before the oil breaks down and fails. He said unless you race 'em, you're worrying too much. He suggested that if more riders regularly maintained their bikes, the engine would last for years regardless of oil used. A poorly maintained engine will fail regardless of diesal or synth.
I thought he made some interesting points, and I did go to synth, and in my old bike I still use an oil additive...
cheers, Gareth
He pointed out that motorcycle specific oils are actually designed for their intended purpose. As companies can afford better and better technology, they have been able to literally tailor their oils. He suggested that if I went to synth, I would be getting the best protection.
He also pointed out that most bike riders will never come close to "pushing" their oil to the very limits before the oil breaks down and fails. He said unless you race 'em, you're worrying too much. He suggested that if more riders regularly maintained their bikes, the engine would last for years regardless of oil used. A poorly maintained engine will fail regardless of diesal or synth.
I thought he made some interesting points, and I did go to synth, and in my old bike I still use an oil additive...
cheers, Gareth
When it boils down to it, people are going to do what they want. I have and will continue to run diesel oil in my motorcycle because it is my choice. I choose not to discount the vast experiences others have that shows the evidence that it works. If you take the time to compare the add packs of diesel oils and motorcycle oils you will see that they are very similar if not identical across the board.
Quote:
He stated that because diesal engines operate very differently to a four stroke engine, the way the oil "washes" off a cylinder, the way the oil moves around the engine, the types of piston rings used, the metal within the engine, and even the oil pump
Find someone else for advice.
There is little difference these days between gasoline engines and diesel engines.
Yes the diesel is heavier and has higher compression ratios. But the internals are VERY
similar and millions of motorcycles have been running diesel oil for millions of miles.
Sure motorcycle oil is available and in some rare cases of 10/10ths race bikes it should
be used. But for general street use, off road use, and even light racing use, diesel oils are
great and work well in cycles.
My 2¢
He stated that because diesal engines operate very differently to a four stroke engine, the way the oil "washes" off a cylinder, the way the oil moves around the engine, the types of piston rings used, the metal within the engine, and even the oil pump
Find someone else for advice.
There is little difference these days between gasoline engines and diesel engines.
Yes the diesel is heavier and has higher compression ratios. But the internals are VERY
similar and millions of motorcycles have been running diesel oil for millions of miles.
Sure motorcycle oil is available and in some rare cases of 10/10ths race bikes it should
be used. But for general street use, off road use, and even light racing use, diesel oils are
great and work well in cycles.
My 2¢
Modern oils are not specific. Low saps issues aside, the vast majority of oils in the European market are dual rated for both petrol and light duty diesels. When I see a typical ACEA A3/B4 spec oil, I view the B4 part as a good thing and use it in my motorcycle.
Originally Posted By: mr_blackstock
I recently considered trying deisal, as quite a few people reckon they have had good experience with it. I spoke with a guy I work with who used to race bikes and is a qualified engineer, and he's old so I figure he's seen alot. He suggested it was a bad idea for a couple of reasons that I thought merited consideration. One explaination was that modern oils are finely tuned towards specific uses. Gone are the days that due to limited technology a couple of oils were used for all purposes. These days, companies can literally design a markedly different oil for use in two entirely different engines, even for engines in different climates. Apparently companies can tailor an oil for a very exact use. He stated that because diesal engines operate very differently to a four stroke engine, the way the oil "washes" off a cylinder, the way the oil moves around the engine, the types of piston rings used, the metal within the engine, and even the oil pump. For a four stroke bike engine, he stated that it is literally oranges and apples. Air cooled, bigger tolerances, different bearings, different mechanics.
He pointed out that motorcycle specific oils are actually designed for their intended purpose. As companies can afford better and better technology, they have been able to literally tailor their oils. He suggested that if I went to synth, I would be getting the best protection.
He also pointed out that most bike riders will never come close to "pushing" their oil to the very limits before the oil breaks down and fails. He said unless you race 'em, you're worrying too much. He suggested that if more riders regularly maintained their bikes, the engine would last for years regardless of oil used. A poorly maintained engine will fail regardless of diesal or synth.
I thought he made some interesting points, and I did go to synth, and in my old bike I still use an oil additive...
cheers, Gareth
Here is why he is completely wrong in the USA.
30 to 50% of all motorcycles sold in the USA over 600 CC require diesel oil by the manufacturer if not using the manufactures own oil.
I trust the people who made my motorcycle, they know more then me, I gave them a huge amount of money to buy my bike and I would not have if I did not think they were capable of telling me the correct oil to use.
)
I recently considered trying deisal, as quite a few people reckon they have had good experience with it. I spoke with a guy I work with who used to race bikes and is a qualified engineer, and he's old so I figure he's seen alot. He suggested it was a bad idea for a couple of reasons that I thought merited consideration. One explaination was that modern oils are finely tuned towards specific uses. Gone are the days that due to limited technology a couple of oils were used for all purposes. These days, companies can literally design a markedly different oil for use in two entirely different engines, even for engines in different climates. Apparently companies can tailor an oil for a very exact use. He stated that because diesal engines operate very differently to a four stroke engine, the way the oil "washes" off a cylinder, the way the oil moves around the engine, the types of piston rings used, the metal within the engine, and even the oil pump. For a four stroke bike engine, he stated that it is literally oranges and apples. Air cooled, bigger tolerances, different bearings, different mechanics.
He pointed out that motorcycle specific oils are actually designed for their intended purpose. As companies can afford better and better technology, they have been able to literally tailor their oils. He suggested that if I went to synth, I would be getting the best protection.
He also pointed out that most bike riders will never come close to "pushing" their oil to the very limits before the oil breaks down and fails. He said unless you race 'em, you're worrying too much. He suggested that if more riders regularly maintained their bikes, the engine would last for years regardless of oil used. A poorly maintained engine will fail regardless of diesal or synth.
I thought he made some interesting points, and I did go to synth, and in my old bike I still use an oil additive...
cheers, Gareth
Here is why he is completely wrong in the USA.
30 to 50% of all motorcycles sold in the USA over 600 CC require diesel oil by the manufacturer if not using the manufactures own oil.
I trust the people who made my motorcycle, they know more then me, I gave them a huge amount of money to buy my bike and I would not have if I did not think they were capable of telling me the correct oil to use.
)
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Here is why he is completely wrong in the USA.
30 to 50% of all motorcycles sold in the USA over 600 CC require diesel oil by the manufacturer if not using the manufactures own oil.
I trust the people who made my motorcycle, they know more then me, I gave them a huge amount of money to buy my bike and I would not have if I did not think they were capable of telling me the correct oil to use.
)
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Here is why he is completely wrong in the USA.
30 to 50% of all motorcycles sold in the USA over 600 CC require diesel oil by the manufacturer if not using the manufactures own oil.
I trust the people who made my motorcycle, they know more then me, I gave them a huge amount of money to buy my bike and I would not have if I did not think they were capable of telling me the correct oil to use.
)What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
..
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Absolutely! I have been a long time advocate of using the proper recommended oil in any vehicle, that includes, boats, planes, cars, trucks and motorcycles.
My only question to you would be, what qualifies a product as motorcycle oil?
Someone putting oil in a bottle, jacking up the price and calling it motorcycle oil?
Answer = No, there has to be some kind of standard, that standard would be Jaso. So if a manual is calling for a Jaso rated oil, yes, of course, the oil of choice would be just that.
With that said, then some of the Rotella Diesel oils would qualify as motorcycle oil as it carries the very same claim that it meets the standard.
Some may not know that so called diesel oil is gasoline automotive API rated oil as well, plus the added Rating for Diesel oil and in some Rotella oil, the added Jaso Claim.
ALL Jaso rated oil has to meet Automotive and/or Diesel standards as part of the Jaso approval. THe Jaso approval takes it an extra step for clutch friction.
" Modern motorcycles usually have the same oil lubricating the engine and the wet clutch. For this purpose most of the time the regular friction modified engine oils are not good enough. To make sure that the right oil is used motorcycle manufacturers usually require the oil to meet one of the JASO standards explained below.
The motor oils that meet the JASO T 903:2006 standard can be classified into four grades: JASO MA, JASO MA1, JASO MA2 and JASO MB. The classification is based on the results of the JASO T 904:2006 clutch system firction test.
In order for a motor oil to meet any of the above mentioned JASO standards it must be at least of one of the following quality levels:
API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3
ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3 "
Click here for the source of the above statement
BTW - I hope you know, I am just discussing here, conversation ...
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
..
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Absolutely! I have been a long time advocate of using the proper recommended oil in any vehicle, that includes, boats, planes, cars, trucks and motorcycles.
My only question to you would be, what qualifies a product as motorcycle oil?
Someone putting oil in a bottle, jacking up the price and calling it motorcycle oil?
Answer = No, there has to be some kind of standard, that standard would be Jaso. So if a manual is calling for a Jaso rated oil, yes, of course, the oil of choice would be just that.
With that said, then some of the Rotella Diesel oils would qualify as motorcycle oil as it carries the very same claim that it meets the standard.
Some may not know that so called diesel oil is gasoline automotive API rated oil as well, plus the added Rating for Diesel oil and in some Rotella oil, the added Jaso Claim.
ALL Jaso rated oil has to meet Automotive and/or Diesel standards as part of the Jaso approval. THe Jaso approval takes it an extra step for clutch friction.
" Modern motorcycles usually have the same oil lubricating the engine and the wet clutch. For this purpose most of the time the regular friction modified engine oils are not good enough. To make sure that the right oil is used motorcycle manufacturers usually require the oil to meet one of the JASO standards explained below.
The motor oils that meet the JASO T 903:2006 standard can be classified into four grades: JASO MA, JASO MA1, JASO MA2 and JASO MB. The classification is based on the results of the JASO T 904:2006 clutch system firction test.
In order for a motor oil to meet any of the above mentioned JASO standards it must be at least of one of the following quality levels:
API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3
ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3 "
Click here for the source of the above statement
BTW - I hope you know, I am just discussing here, conversation ...
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
..
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Absolutely! I have been a long time advocate of using the proper recommended oil in any vehicle, that includes, boats, planes, cars, trucks and motorcycles.
My only question to you would be, what qualifies a product as motorcycle oil?
Someone putting oil in a bottle, jacking up the price and calling it motorcycle oil?
I know there is little difference in the formulation of the oils in question. The only difference I can detect in the use of motorcycle specific oil is that shifts are much smoother than Rotella in the bikes in which I have tried it. Two of them were Triumph 1050's which aren't known for having smooth transmissions anyway. Triumph called for motorcycle specific oil for both bikes. I can't explain what was responsible, but Liqui-Moly Racing 10-50 provided for dramatically better shifting than Rotella.
Rotella meets the specs for my current bike and it has a far smoother transmission than the Triumphs so I might give it another go. I don't doubt Rotella will protect the engine, but notchy shifting and false neutrals are a deal breaker for me.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
..
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Absolutely! I have been a long time advocate of using the proper recommended oil in any vehicle, that includes, boats, planes, cars, trucks and motorcycles.
My only question to you would be, what qualifies a product as motorcycle oil?
Someone putting oil in a bottle, jacking up the price and calling it motorcycle oil?
I know there is little difference in the formulation of the oils in question. The only difference I can detect in the use of motorcycle specific oil is that shifts are much smoother than Rotella in the bikes in which I have tried it. Two of them were Triumph 1050's which aren't known for having smooth transmissions anyway. Triumph called for motorcycle specific oil for both bikes. I can't explain what was responsible, but Liqui-Moly Racing 10-50 provided for dramatically better shifting than Rotella.
Rotella meets the specs for my current bike and it has a far smoother transmission than the Triumphs so I might give it another go. I don't doubt Rotella will protect the engine, but notchy shifting and false neutrals are a deal breaker for me.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
..
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Absolutely! I have been a long time advocate of using the proper recommended oil in any vehicle, that includes, boats, planes, cars, trucks and motorcycles.
My only question to you would be, what qualifies a product as motorcycle oil?
Someone putting oil in a bottle, jacking up the price and calling it motorcycle oil?
I know there is little difference in the formulation of the oils in question. The only difference I can detect in the use of motorcycle specific oil is that shifts are much smoother than Rotella in the bikes in which I have tried it. Two of them were Triumph 1050's which aren't known for having smooth transmissions anyway. Triumph called for motorcycle specific oil for both bikes. I can't explain what was responsible, but Liqui-Moly Racing 10-50 provided for dramatically better shifting than Rotella.
Rotella meets the specs for my current bike and it has a far smoother transmission than the Triumphs so I might give it another go. I don't doubt Rotella will protect the engine, but notchy shifting and false neutrals are a deal breaker for me.
I agree 100% that your bike would shift smoother with Liqui-Moly 10/50 but not because it is Liqui-Moly. Its because you are comparing shifting with 2 different weight oils. The Rotella oil we are talking about is a 40 weight as most diesel oil in the USA can not be found above 40 except a select few and I am exclusively using it in my Harley right now Mystik JT8 15/50.
Anyway ...
50 oil is always going to shift better then a 40 no matter the brand, no matter syn or conventional. Its more heavy.
In fact, I would go out on a limb and tell anyone looking for better shifting (and more quiet) to simply go out and buy Valvoline 20w50 Conventional Motorcycle oil. I believe at $4 to $5 a quart it will beat most any oil in that respect including oils like Mobile 1 etc.
Here is what I did on my past metrics.
We live in warmer part of the country during summertime. Pretty safe to say there is NEVER a day where the daytime high is less then 90 degrees and pretty safe to say, for a good part of it, its closer to 95 to 102.
Anyway, I used Conventional Diesel oils in the 15/40 weight for my Suzuki and Vstar 1300 = Rotella, Delvac, Valvoline and Delo.
My favorite for shifting was the Mobile Delvac 15/40. Rotella was close and the only one to claim Jaso.
However sometime inbetween Yamaha updated their oil recommendations to include 20w50 oil. At that point I switched to Valvoline 20/50 Conventional motorcycle oil and never looked back.
I still used Diesel 15/40 for the late fall to very early spring as we can pretty much ride all year here during warm spells. But once spring was in full spring 20/50 Valvoline was great right up until next winter, I think the last winter I owned the bike I actually used Valvoline instead of Diesel and mixed it 50/50 with 10w40 and 20w50..
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
..
What about manufacturers who specify motorcycle specific oil? Would you apply the same reasoning and buy motorcycle oil?
My only gripe with diesel oil is the bikes I've tried it in shifted like [censored]. I would use it in a non-shared sump bike without a second thought.
Absolutely! I have been a long time advocate of using the proper recommended oil in any vehicle, that includes, boats, planes, cars, trucks and motorcycles.
My only question to you would be, what qualifies a product as motorcycle oil?
Someone putting oil in a bottle, jacking up the price and calling it motorcycle oil?
I know there is little difference in the formulation of the oils in question. The only difference I can detect in the use of motorcycle specific oil is that shifts are much smoother than Rotella in the bikes in which I have tried it. Two of them were Triumph 1050's which aren't known for having smooth transmissions anyway. Triumph called for motorcycle specific oil for both bikes. I can't explain what was responsible, but Liqui-Moly Racing 10-50 provided for dramatically better shifting than Rotella.
Rotella meets the specs for my current bike and it has a far smoother transmission than the Triumphs so I might give it another go. I don't doubt Rotella will protect the engine, but notchy shifting and false neutrals are a deal breaker for me.
I agree 100% that your bike would shift smoother with Liqui-Moly 10/50 but not because it is Liqui-Moly. Its because you are comparing shifting with 2 different weight oils. The Rotella oil we are talking about is a 40 weight as most diesel oil in the USA can not be found above 40 except a select few and I am exclusively using it in my Harley right now Mystik JT8 15/50.
Anyway ...
50 oil is always going to shift better then a 40 no matter the brand, no matter syn or conventional. Its more heavy.
In fact, I would go out on a limb and tell anyone looking for better shifting (and more quiet) to simply go out and buy Valvoline 20w50 Conventional Motorcycle oil. I believe at $4 to $5 a quart it will beat most any oil in that respect including oils like Mobile 1 etc.
Here is what I did on my past metrics.
We live in warmer part of the country during summertime. Pretty safe to say there is NEVER a day where the daytime high is less then 90 degrees and pretty safe to say, for a good part of it, its closer to 95 to 102.
Anyway, I used Conventional Diesel oils in the 15/40 weight for my Suzuki and Vstar 1300 = Rotella, Delvac, Valvoline and Delo.
My favorite for shifting was the Mobile Delvac 15/40. Rotella was close and the only one to claim Jaso.
However sometime inbetween Yamaha updated their oil recommendations to include 20w50 oil. At that point I switched to Valvoline 20/50 Conventional motorcycle oil and never looked back.
I still used Diesel 15/40 for the late fall to very early spring as we can pretty much ride all year here during warm spells. But once spring was in full spring 20/50 Valvoline was great right up until next winter, I think the last winter I owned the bike I actually used Valvoline instead of Diesel and mixed it 50/50 with 10w40 and 20w50..
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BTW - I took a long hard look at some of the Liqui-Moly oils for my Harley. Some of them carry the light diesel rating ACEA and I believe I was looking at A3/B4 in a 50. Not easy to find in the USA but I did find some at what some might consider a reasonable cost = same price as OEM oil.
At the same time the oil I am using has a higher rating of what would be the equal of ACEA E6,7,or9 or something like that and would be more in line with what is called for my bike. I liked what I saw about the Liqui oils though, not that it means anything *L*
I am really happy with the Mystik JT8 15/50 now so maybe I am all done with playing around with oils, had a couple great UOAs that I posted in this forum and also a VOA of the same oil. Best of all, 2 Gallon container shipped to my door for $40.00. Last order I placed, I ordered 4 gallons and because it was shipped from two locations, they sent me 8 gallons at the 4 gallon price. However I have no use for it all, it would get too old by the time I get to the last couple gallons.
At the same time the oil I am using has a higher rating of what would be the equal of ACEA E6,7,or9 or something like that and would be more in line with what is called for my bike. I liked what I saw about the Liqui oils though, not that it means anything *L*
I am really happy with the Mystik JT8 15/50 now so maybe I am all done with playing around with oils, had a couple great UOAs that I posted in this forum and also a VOA of the same oil. Best of all, 2 Gallon container shipped to my door for $40.00. Last order I placed, I ordered 4 gallons and because it was shipped from two locations, they sent me 8 gallons at the 4 gallon price. However I have no use for it all, it would get too old by the time I get to the last couple gallons.
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Delo 15W-40, Rotella 15W-40, Rotella 5W-40 and M1 15W-50... all have worked fine in my bikes. For me, as long as its non-EC... that's good enough.
No, it wasn't just viscosity. Castrol synthetic 5W40 and 10W40 shifted far better than Rotella as well. Shifting quality of the Catrol products, even their 10W50, deteriorated far sooner than Liqui-Moly. Even at the end of the OCI though, any of the motorcycle specific oils I used were better than Rotella in those bikes. Maybe it was synthetic vs conventional issue. Triumph also called for semi-synthetic or synthetic.
I use 3 things to help me decide which oil works best for me. What temp range the bike will be ridden in. What weight oil, and if the bike will be ridden until it's completely warmed up for the duration of the ride.I consider short rides less then 10 miles. Then the bike cools off, and that has an effect on shift quality until it gets back up to temperature again. I use a 20/50 / 10/40 mix in the motor in winter. Mostly to take some strain off the starter. The battery has more then enough amps to crank it over, but the starter is the weak link there. Then straight 20/50 wt in the warmer months. 15/40 in the primary year round, because I like the way it shifts. Really doesn't matter who makes it, they all seem to work better then 20/50 wt. 75-90 wt gear oil in the trans. I feel it lets it shift better with out and banging between gears. Just a nice click.,,
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