Engine Noise on 2005 Explorer

[RoGuE]

I've got a question for you guys. My sister's 2005 Ford Explorer with a 4.0L V6 seems to be making a noise I have not heard before. I guess it would be a ticking noise. It has never been a really quiet engine but it seems louder than ever before. Also, after starting up cold and to a lesser degree when warmed up, it makes a sound that is like a chip bag crinkling. The car only has 25k miles. It sat around a while, but is being used about 4 days a week now on short trips only.

The oil was last changed in April 2015, but it only has about 2700 miles since the last change (regular Pennzoil 5w-30). The oil level is good, maybe down a 1/4 of a quart. Perhaps the oil is just thinned out from the short trips? Here is a clip of it warmed up. I moved it all around to try to get the best representation of the ticking.


Engine Ticking

 

[01rangerxl]

Timing chains. There are four total, front & back of engine. Engine has to come out to replace.

Sorry.

 

[SatinSilver]

I'd change the oil with some Castrol Magnatech 5w30 and see if anything changes. The oil change is due anyway. On a short tripper like that a 6 month oci is ideal on conventional. So that suv is well beyond that interval.

 

[RoGuE]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Timing chains. There are four total, front & back of engine. Engine has to come out to replace.

Sorry.


From what you heard in the video is a definite sound of a timing chain issue? What specifically...the chain itself, or the guides? Even with only 25,000 miles? Is this an interference engine?

FWIW, here is another audio recording:

Alternate recording

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
I'd change the oil with some Castrol Magnatech 5w30 and see if anything changes. The oil change is due anyway. On a short tripper like that a 6 month oci is ideal on conventional. So that suv is well beyond that interval.


I have some Pennzoil Platinum sitting in the garage ready to go for it. Would that be a suitable oil to try and quiet it down?

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: RoGuE
I have some Pennzoil Platinum sitting in the garage ready to go for it. Would that be a suitable oil to try and quiet it down?


Yes, but get it out of there at the one year mark. Timing chain issues can result when using inferior oil(not the case here just fyi) or pushing the oil beyond its limits. Which means leaving it in too long.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: RoGuE
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Timing chains. There are four total, front & back of engine. Engine has to come out to replace.

Sorry.


From what you heard in the video is a definite sound of a timing chain issue? What specifically...the chain itself, or the guides? Even with only 25,000 miles? Is this an interference engine?



It's really the guides that fail, but basically the fix is replacing everything with updated components. It's not getting fixed unless the engine comes out is basically what you're looking at. Ford supposedly revised the guides around 2002, but there were complaints up through '05 and '06 models. With more average miles it probably would have been fixed under warranty years ago.

It sounds a lot like the ones I have heard with the bad guides...awful mechanical rattling noise all the time.

No idea how long it might last like this. Once fixed, it should be a solid engine. The timing chain guide thing is their weak point.

 

[RoGuE]

On average, how much would a repair like that cost? Mentioning removal of an engine sounds to me like several thousand, which can't be done right now. Would you suggest changing the oil like satinsilver suggested for right now?

What is a worst case scenario if it failed while driving? Would the engine simply stop or would it cause more damage?

 

[01rangerxl]

You're probably looking at around a couple grand. It is a lot of labor.

Not sure what the worst case scenario is. I've never actually seen a SOHC 4.0 totally dead from timing chain failure, but the noise sure sounds like death. I can't imagine it's not causing damage/additional wear material. It is a non-interference engine.

If oil quiets it down, that's good, but it's a Band-Aid. It is a design defect and this engine slipped through the cracks for this long because it only has 25K miles.

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Timing chains. There are four total, front & back of engine. Engine has to come out to replace.

Sorry.
This was my first thought too, assuming it's the SOHC version of the Ford 4.0. The in-block camshaft of the OHV version is replaced with a jackshaft that drives the OHCs, one off the front and one off the back.

FWIW, one of my co-workers had two of these, and let the chains rattle away to a ripe old age & high miles without being changed. They never did fail completely. For myself, I'd pull the engine and change them out.

 

[BAJA_05]

Sorry to hear about this for your Sister. My 06 Explorer with the same motor just keeps chugging on with alitle over 130,000 miles. I usually just use a cheap conventional & pair it the the Motorcraft FL820s. Good luck & did you now just notice due to the cold weather?

 

[beechcraftted]

Yes to all those who opined on the timing chains. My son had one of these that got so bad it sounded like a diesel or a toasted rod bearing. But it was the timing chains. Never did leave him stranded, but got so noisy we finally did the chains and tensioners. Pieces of plastic block were laying everywhere. Do it yourself in a weekend, maybe 10-12 hours. I bought the ford kit, but there are aftermarket available. Yes, you have to pull the motor to do the rear. Lots of info on the Ranger / Explorer forums re this engine. They are actually pretty bulletproof after the tensioners are updated. (Hah, reminds me of the GM 3.4 intake gasket fiasco....pretty good after it's updated).

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: RoGuE
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Timing chains. There are four total, front & back of engine. Engine has to come out to replace.

Sorry.


From what you heard in the video is a definite sound of a timing chain issue? What specifically...the chain itself, or the guides? Even with only 25,000 miles? Is this an interference engine?

FWIW, here is another audio recording:

Alternate recording

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
I'd change the oil with some Castrol Magnatech 5w30 and see if anything changes. The oil change is due anyway. On a short tripper like that a 6 month oci is ideal on conventional. So that suv is well beyond that interval.


I have some Pennzoil Platinum sitting in the garage ready to go for it. Would that be a suitable oil to try and quiet it down?


How can you expect anyone to give a valid response when you do not even mention what viscosity the Pennzoil Platinum is?

 

[bdcardinal]

We give a price for all the timing components and then for a longblock. Usually a longblock is cheaper or if anything the extra warranty makes the difference worth it.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I learned something today, thanks fellas. I have a neighbor whose kid owns a mid-2000's Explorer. It always rattles, just like the above video. I always wondered when the thing is going to blow up, but it keeps on driving. Next time I talk to my neighbor, I'll mention the timing chains.

 

[Number_35]

Even with all of us suggesting that it's the timing chains you'll want to make sure. I would use a mechanics' stethoscope to verify.

 

[RoGuE]

Originally Posted By: Number_35

FWIW, one of my co-workers had two of these, and let the chains rattle away to a ripe old age & high miles without being changed. They never did fail completely. For myself, I'd pull the engine and change them out.


She might have to let it go for a while. She certainly cannot afford a several thousand dollar repair right now.

Originally Posted By: thorromig
Sorry to hear about this for your Sister. My 06 Explorer with the same motor just keeps chugging on with alitle over 130,000 miles. I usually just use a cheap conventional & pair it the the Motorcraft FL820s. Good luck & did you now just notice due to the cold weather?


Yes, it definitely just became apparent when it got cold.

Originally Posted By: beechcraftted
Yes to all those who opined on the timing chains. My son had one of these that got so bad it sounded like a diesel or a toasted rod bearing. But it was the timing chains. Never did leave him stranded, but got so noisy we finally did the chains and tensioners. Pieces of plastic block were laying everywhere. Do it yourself in a weekend, maybe 10-12 hours. I bought the ford kit, but there are aftermarket available. Yes, you have to pull the motor to do the rear. Lots of info on the Ranger / Explorer forums re this engine. They are actually pretty bulletproof after the tensioners are updated. (Hah, reminds me of the GM 3.4 intake gasket fiasco....pretty good after it's updated).


I wish I could, but I don't have the tools, room, or skill to do something this labor intensive.

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA

How can you expect anyone to give a valid response when you do not even mention what viscosity the Pennzoil Platinum is?


5w-30, which is the recommended oil for the car. Mentioned that was in there in the first post. Sorry.

Originally Posted By: Number_35
Even with all of us suggesting that it's the timing chains you'll want to make sure. I would use a mechanics' stethoscope to verify.


Thanks, I'll look in to that.

 

[RoGuE]

I just finished changing the oil with some Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30. The noise is still there, but I believe it is a little quieter. You can be the judge.

Engine noise after oil change

 

[JimPghPA]

Saved for future reference.

 

[Whimsey]

My wife had a purchased new 2002 Explorer with the 4.0 SOHC engine. The oil was changed every 5,000 miles with Motorcraft 5W-30 or Schaeffer 7000 5W-30 syn-blend with a new FL820S oil filter at the dealer or by me. At 37,000 miles my wife tells me it seems to be making an unusual noise when cold while warming up at around 2500 rpm. I confirmed it and did research and found it was the timing chain cassettes, a common issue. I had an UOA done and the iron level was extremely high compared to previous UOA's. The dealer had to get Ford involved since it was out of warranty. Ford said there is no problem with the timing chain cassettes and denied any warranty work. The price quoted to fix her problem was upwards of $3000 and they still would use the defective timing chain cassettes again. We traded this Explorer in at another dealer for a new 2005 Explorer with the 4.6 V8. Still has that one with over 190,000 quiet miles.

Whimsey

 

[RoGuE]

I did want to update that since the oil change, when the engine is warmed up the noise is completely gone. Still present on start up though. Hopefully this band aid will hold it for a while.