I'm thinking cartridge type oil filters will become more common in the automotive arena future for various reasons (environmental mostly) as opposed to the spin on filter that has dominated the market for many years now. Spin on type filters are pretty straight forward as far as installation and removal. The cartridge filters usually require a little more input/detail from the installer/remover, (O rings, usually at least one, more likely two), that must be contended with as far as proper installation and removal. I'm speaking especially of the folks that do not change their own oil/filter, but rely on various retail outlets to do the job for them, (quick lube places, big box store auto service centers, and the like). In short, I believe it takes a little more attention to detail when it comes to servicing cartridge oil filters, as opposed to spin on type oil filters..... in other words, more room for error during the removal/installation phase by employees of the aforementioned establishments.
Cartridge oil filter installation /vs spin on type
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I totally agree. That is why I have a Toyota Dealer change my oil on my Camry with its 2GRFE V6 engine.
It's depend on car manufacture, the cartridge oil filter in a Mercedes-Benz is very easy to chance, the 4 o-rings on the filter holder are easy to change too. Sometime I was lazy so I just changed the filter without changing the o-rings, and sometime I looked at the filter and it was in good shape so I reused it for another OCI of 10k miles.
Main advantage of cartridge oil filter for DIY'er is you can see the condition of the filter(and probably of your engine) without cutting. Main disadvantage is the cost, they are usually cost more than spin-on filter.
Main advantage of cartridge oil filter for DIY'er is you can see the condition of the filter(and probably of your engine) without cutting. Main disadvantage is the cost, they are usually cost more than spin-on filter.
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The Ecotec cartridges are very easy to change.
Too bad cartridges cost more than spin-ons, and for less materials
Too bad cartridges cost more than spin-ons, and for less materials
Cartridge filters may (or may not) become more common. It's a fact though that for the vehicle manufactures it more expensive per unit to include a cartridge housing as opposed to spin on applications.
And yes more attention to detail is required than spin on. There are generally at least two o-rings that must be replaced/lubed, and for top applications the cartridge housing should be opened and allowed to drain some before opening the drain bolt. I prefer the cartridge on top of engine applications to those on the bottom for practical reasons. Just me, but I don't care for how Toyota does it, too Rube Goldberg-ish for me.
So if going to quick lubes, I agree there's more chances for error and not optimal installation short cuts with cartridge filter applications. Also as noted, they are generally more expensive than spin on.
And yes more attention to detail is required than spin on. There are generally at least two o-rings that must be replaced/lubed, and for top applications the cartridge housing should be opened and allowed to drain some before opening the drain bolt. I prefer the cartridge on top of engine applications to those on the bottom for practical reasons. Just me, but I don't care for how Toyota does it, too Rube Goldberg-ish for me.
So if going to quick lubes, I agree there's more chances for error and not optimal installation short cuts with cartridge filter applications. Also as noted, they are generally more expensive than spin on.
I don't get why a cartridge filter costs more, I mean, it has less to it. No metal, no spring. Must be a scaling thing (not as many sold, or too many different sizes of them).
My Toyota's have them underside; I just remove and drop into the drain pan (one of those Blitz ones, so it doesn't drop into a vat of oil). My prior VW had it topside, and today I'm not sure which I prefer. The VW I used a vacuum extractor to pull oil through the dipstick, so it was a full topside change. That was nice. However removal of the filter still would get oil dripping in places if I didn't drop immediately into a bag that I had to shove next to the engine. Since the Toyotas have to drain from the bottom, I find it no real extra work.
Now having to remove a skidplate to get to the oil filter... that is Rube Goldberg.
My Toyota's have them underside; I just remove and drop into the drain pan (one of those Blitz ones, so it doesn't drop into a vat of oil). My prior VW had it topside, and today I'm not sure which I prefer. The VW I used a vacuum extractor to pull oil through the dipstick, so it was a full topside change. That was nice. However removal of the filter still would get oil dripping in places if I didn't drop immediately into a bag that I had to shove next to the engine. Since the Toyotas have to drain from the bottom, I find it no real extra work.
Now having to remove a skidplate to get to the oil filter... that is Rube Goldberg.
My first Toyota was a 1967 Corona sedan with the 3R four cylinder engine. It used a cartridge oil filter.What goes around comes around.
Originally Posted By: supton
My Toyota's have them underside; I just remove and drop into the drain pan (one of those Blitz ones, so it doesn't drop into a vat of oil). My prior VW had it topside, and today I'm not sure which I prefer. The VW I used a vacuum extractor to pull oil through the dipstick, so it was a full topside change. That was nice. However removal of the filter still would get oil dripping in places if I didn't drop immediately into a bag that I had to shove next to the engine. Since the Toyotas have to drain from the bottom, I find it no real extra work.
I changed cartridge oil filter on top of my E430 engine more than 10 times without a drop of oil on the engine.
First, I loosen the oil filter holder and let it rest on top of the filter housing to let the oil dripped down inside the housing. The next step was connecting hose/tube ... of the Mityvac 7201 to extract oil via dipstick tube, this took about 2-3 minutes(I worked slowly). When the 7201 is working I removed the filter holder from the housing, at this time most oil already had been dripped down into the housing, with a small piece of old news paper I catch few drops of oil while moved it to garage floor to change the filter and o-rings, on top of old news papers.
Believe me, if the cartridge oil filter holder and housing are designed correctly it is very easy to change without mess, as long as you do it in the right sequence.
My Toyota's have them underside; I just remove and drop into the drain pan (one of those Blitz ones, so it doesn't drop into a vat of oil). My prior VW had it topside, and today I'm not sure which I prefer. The VW I used a vacuum extractor to pull oil through the dipstick, so it was a full topside change. That was nice. However removal of the filter still would get oil dripping in places if I didn't drop immediately into a bag that I had to shove next to the engine. Since the Toyotas have to drain from the bottom, I find it no real extra work.
I changed cartridge oil filter on top of my E430 engine more than 10 times without a drop of oil on the engine.
First, I loosen the oil filter holder and let it rest on top of the filter housing to let the oil dripped down inside the housing. The next step was connecting hose/tube ... of the Mityvac 7201 to extract oil via dipstick tube, this took about 2-3 minutes(I worked slowly). When the 7201 is working I removed the filter holder from the housing, at this time most oil already had been dripped down into the housing, with a small piece of old news paper I catch few drops of oil while moved it to garage floor to change the filter and o-rings, on top of old news papers.
Believe me, if the cartridge oil filter holder and housing are designed correctly it is very easy to change without mess, as long as you do it in the right sequence.
Well, car is gone now; but I guess in hindsight there was probably way to pull the filter up and let it drain a bit--filter would stay stuck to the plastic housing, and of course it was sitting in oil until that point. Wasn't a big deal, just had to move fast.
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I totally agree. That is why I have a Toyota Dealer change my oil on my Camry with its 2GRFE V6 engine.
A bit OT, but there is no guarantee that a dealer will do any better work on your vehicle than a good independent garage. Changing these cartridge filters might be something worth watching closely, and the right independent might let you watch--I have found dealers usually chase you out of the work area and won't let you anywhere near them working on your vehicle.
I totally agree. That is why I have a Toyota Dealer change my oil on my Camry with its 2GRFE V6 engine.
A bit OT, but there is no guarantee that a dealer will do any better work on your vehicle than a good independent garage. Changing these cartridge filters might be something worth watching closely, and the right independent might let you watch--I have found dealers usually chase you out of the work area and won't let you anywhere near them working on your vehicle.
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
I totally agree. That is why I have a Toyota Dealer change my oil on my Camry with its 2GRFE V6 engine.
A bit OT, but there is no guarantee that a dealer will do any better work on your vehicle than a good independent garage. Changing these cartridge filters might be something worth watching closely, and the right independent might let you watch--I have found dealers usually chase you out of the work area and won't let you anywhere near them working on your vehicle.
Changing oil is usually a low end job so the guy changing the oil at the dealership could be the same guy that gets hired at an quickie oil change place.
Quote:
I totally agree. That is why I have a Toyota Dealer change my oil on my Camry with its 2GRFE V6 engine.
A bit OT, but there is no guarantee that a dealer will do any better work on your vehicle than a good independent garage. Changing these cartridge filters might be something worth watching closely, and the right independent might let you watch--I have found dealers usually chase you out of the work area and won't let you anywhere near them working on your vehicle.
Changing oil is usually a low end job so the guy changing the oil at the dealership could be the same guy that gets hired at an quickie oil change place.
It is odd that some cartridges cost more. The ones I've bought for my GF's Lexus were about $5 for Toyota brand and $3.25 for Mahle (Rock Auto clearance). It is a somewhat different process to change them, but not really harder than spin-on. Her IS250 housing uses just the one big o-ring. The package comes with a small o-ring and a plastic drain tool, too. Neither of those bits are used in her application.
OTOH, my 2012 Mazda3 uses a spin-on and it's my understanding that these cars used cartridges in the past.
OTOH, my 2012 Mazda3 uses a spin-on and it's my understanding that these cars used cartridges in the past.
I'd like to see cartridge oil filters go extinct. I absolutely hate them.
I won a free oil change from a local Ford dealer four years ago.
My wife brought my '11 Camry in to redeem my free change.
Half way though the change, the shop guy calls me on my wife's phone and I have to coach him through the filter installation. On his first try, he didn't have the o-ring in place and oil was streaming out of the car.
Sometimes you get what you pay for.
My wife brought my '11 Camry in to redeem my free change.
Half way though the change, the shop guy calls me on my wife's phone and I have to coach him through the filter installation. On his first try, he didn't have the o-ring in place and oil was streaming out of the car.
Sometimes you get what you pay for.
Originally Posted By: Branson304
I'd like to see cartridge oil filters go extinct. I absolutely hate them.
+1. working in a shop makes me hate them even more. Like when i was shopping for a car i made sure i had a spin on filter. The 7th gen malibu's had the cartridge filter and i did not want tht set up.
I'd like to see cartridge oil filters go extinct. I absolutely hate them.
+1. working in a shop makes me hate them even more. Like when i was shopping for a car i made sure i had a spin on filter. The 7th gen malibu's had the cartridge filter and i did not want tht set up.
I would appreciate a cartridge filter. It can be inspected before installation. The condition at OCI/FCI can be observed. Dissection not needed. Pricing is related to supply and demand.
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