The world of 0w40s

[buster]

Quote:
It seems like talk about Amsoil and Redline in particular has really waned in the past few years around here, and I'm curious if there's a physical/performance basis for that (ie, has M1 matched them so they're irrelevant?), or if its just that people are averse to the cost.


Cost/performance gap has closed. Little to no difference. 10 or more years ago, the majors weren't making or pushing synthetics like they are now. It's not just Mobil 1 anymore. It's PU, Edge etc....more options. Of the boutique oils, I prefer Amsoil over RP and RL.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Maybe the SRT oil has something special.

Probably reduced phosphorus in an attempt to alleviate catalytic converter panic, or at least in an attempt to CYA. After all, how can they justify low phosphorus ILSAC lubes in generic vehicles, yet have a high phosphorus lube in an SRT, lest some BITOGer take them to task over it.

But, Chrysler just likes to have as many as possible oil specifications running currently as is humanly possible, I think. Between the Crossfire and the SRTs, that brings out at least two 0w-40 options. A Cummins could bring in a 5w-40 and other HDEOs. The Dodge half ton diesel has something unique. I'm sure a Fiat would bring in something obscure, albeit based upon some ACEA specification. Then, there are the vanilla ILSAC oils of various grades for other Chrysler vehicles.

440Magnum: You're quite right. I had forgotten that it was M1 0w-40, so it's not like we've got something totally new and different here. Additionally, I bet that one isn't going to find the SRT oils at a significant discount to a Pennzoil A3/B4 option, either.

No wonder SOPUS has difficulty keeping on top of its data sheets.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Additionally, I bet that one isn't going to find the SRT oils at a significant discount to a Pennzoil A3/B4 option, either.



Kinda the opposite, actually. Whenever I find the SRT PU, its usually between 1 and 2 bucks more per quart than M1 0w40. Another reason I never used it but once.

Now you got me curious about what the VM Motori diesel v6 in the Ram Ecodiesel requires. Ah, its a low-SAPS ACEA C3 5w30.

So Fiat-branded vehicles notwithstanding, 5 different oils cover everything branded Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, or Jeep:

5w20 (SN) for the Tigershark 4, Pentastar v6, and Eagle (5.7) v8 gasoline engines in cars and 1500 trucks

5w30 (SN) for the Eagle in HD (2500) trucks

5w30 (ACEA C3) low-SAPS for the Ecodiesel

0w40 (SN) for the Apache (6.4) V8 in SRT vehicles and 2500/3500 trucks and the Viper V10.

15w40 (CJ 4?) for the Cummins

 

[SR5]

So PU 0W40 SRT = M1 0W40 Lite
Less PAO
Less TBN
Less Zinc
Less Phos
And Less Cash in your wallet !!

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: SR5
So PU 0W40 SRT = M1 0W40 Lite
Less PAO
Less TBN
Less Zinc
Less Phos
And Less Cash in your wallet !!





It was quite light on the wallet this past December when Auto Zones around the country were discounting loads of SRT 0w-40 for $2 each. I picked up 12 qts for 2 years of oil changes...could have made that 8 years if I wanted. The Mobil 1 0w-40 was not routinely on sale that I could see.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Lots of us bought it at Auto Zone $2 a quart so it will keep popping up on here. It's a compromise that I would not pay full price for. That oil has to be emissions friendly, shears quickly to 30wt, and was made for SRT's rather short 5000 mile oil change requirements. If it tested fine in a Hellcat I'm fine with using it in my CTS-V.

 

[SR5]

Yep, $2 is a good price, I would use it at that price.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Kinda the opposite, actually. Whenever I find the SRT PU, its usually between 1 and 2 bucks more per quart than M1 0w40.

Good grief. You think for consolidation purposes, they'd just use the Pennzoil Euro A3/B4, or is Euro too airy-fairy for an SRT application?

I'm sure someone in marketing somewhere thought a specific SRT branding would be the cat's pajamas.

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Now you got me curious about what the VM Motori diesel v6 in the Ram Ecodiesel requires. Ah, its a low-SAPS ACEA C3 5w30.

Ironically, the only off the shelf product I've seen recently that meets that is Castrol 5w-30 C3 dexos2.

GM's dexos specs are a bit of an attempt to clean things up, but they lost the plot when they started to add extra viscosities, without actually making them interchangeable. For a European vehicle where M1 0w-40 is an approved lube, GC 0w-30 will do the trick; you look for the spec, and you use it. Within reason, you can do much the same with any CJ-4 lubricant. They all have the higher HTHS, and you choose cold cranking as needed. The dexos1 spec was okay in that regard at the start with 5w-30 and 0w-30, but now they've mucked it all up. It would have been ideal if you have a GM car that says dexos1, you grab a dexos1 bottle off the shelf, and you're set, with maybe some allowance between a 0w-XX and a 5w-XX, as has been traditional for GM. Then again, the Euro threads show confusion reigns supreme even when it should be completely straightforward.

 

[Garak]

$2 is definitely good, but that's a price one cannot rely upon. I've never seen the product up here. I'm sure the dealers get it, but Shell Canada seems to despise selling anything that isn't SN/GF-5 or CJ-4 on the shelf. Everything else (including PUP in SN/GF-5) must be carefully hidden away in a warehouse or at the dealership.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Kinda the opposite, actually. Whenever I find the SRT PU, its usually between 1 and 2 bucks more per quart than M1 0w40.

Good grief. You think for consolidation purposes, they'd just use the Pennzoil Euro A3/B4, or is Euro too airy-fairy for an SRT application?

I'm sure someone in marketing somewhere thought a specific SRT branding would be the cat's pajamas.


That's one cynical view. The other cynical view is that SOPUS saw a chance to come up with an oil that was good enough for the relatively low-stress SRT engines, could probably meet a few more rounds of lowering SAPS standards without re-forumlation, and could elbow the previously recommended M1 0w40 aside by meeting the (somewhat made-up) MS12633 spec right out of the box. I'm sure the truth is "all of the above."

For the record, the first year that SOPUS was allied with FCA, they factory-filled the SRT vehicles with PU 5w40, so it obviously does the job just fine.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Lots of us bought it at Auto Zone $2 a quart so it will keep popping up on here. It's a compromise that I would not pay full price for. That oil has to be emissions friendly, shears quickly to 30wt, and was made for SRT's rather short 5000 mile oil change requirements. If it tested fine in a Hellcat I'm fine with using it in my CTS-V.


All 6.1's actually call for 3k miles severe service and 6k miles 'regular' service. When you read their qualifications almost no one can really go 6k miles.

In my ownership history (purchased mine in August 05) the problem is fuel dilution. The engine is easy on the oil, the tune is not...

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Lots of us bought it at Auto Zone $2 a quart so it will keep popping up on here. It's a compromise that I would not pay full price for. That oil has to be emissions friendly, shears quickly to 30wt, and was made for SRT's rather short 5000 mile oil change requirements. If it tested fine in a Hellcat I'm fine with using it in my CTS-V.


All 6.1's actually call for 3k miles severe service and 6k miles 'regular' service. When you read their qualifications almost no one can really go 6k miles.

In my ownership history (purchased mine in August 05) the problem is fuel dilution. The engine is easy on the oil, the tune is not...


I always go by the oil life monitor on 6.4 (392), and its always gone off between 5500 and 5800 miles. I've never had a dilution issue on the couple of analyses I had done, but then my commute includes enough freeway driving to get the oil up to full temp for at least 10 minutes or so.

 

[Garak]

Well, they could have grabbed something with a higher HTHS already and a lowered SAPS, like an ACEA C3 lubricant. So yes, I'm cynical about it. I suggest that Ferrari wants a Viper to be faster about as much as a Viper owner wants to use a Euro oil.

As for the Pennzoil Euro working right out of the box, I wouldn't doubt that in the least. One day, Shell is going to run out of bar codes or something.