Great work, Gary. You are a real asset to this community.
I agree with your conclusion. I've always maintained that this was the case, and it's the reason why I'm not concerned with the backpressure on the Amsoil Dual Remote Bypass Filter (BMK-13).
Bypass testing end all debate platform is installed!!
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I agree with your conclusion. I've always maintained that this was the case, and it's the reason why I'm not concerned with the backpressure on the Amsoil Dual Remote Bypass Filter (BMK-13).
Well wait a second. The bypass valve won't open until it reaches it's psid setting. Is that bypass opening pressure the same as the difference in pressures you're measuring?
12-17 PSID
According to Purolator, that is the relief valve setting. Maybe it will take 15w-40 motor honey to see it
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Okay ..the odd thing that I see is that the downstream pressure appears to lead the upstream pressure during the surge. It's not long in duration ...but it appears to work from the "end" ..backwards.
I'm measuring across the media. I currently read not much more than 4 psid at any time. 427ZO6 (I think) has the actual spec sheet on these filters (alleged bypass setting). I imagine that we'll eventually reach a terminal PSID at highway speeds as the filter starts clogging up. If it reaches ..let's say 8 psid ...and never goes above it ..or reaches it (after warm up) at lower and lower engine speeds ..we'll have to conclude that the bypass valve is in operation. Right now it's at around 4 psid almost all the time except through transition ..but it never seems to drift too far away from that figure on the supply side.
edit: Okay ..we should see a terminal PSID of between 12-17 psid.
[ March 29, 2005, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
I'm measuring across the media. I currently read not much more than 4 psid at any time. 427ZO6 (I think) has the actual spec sheet on these filters (alleged bypass setting). I imagine that we'll eventually reach a terminal PSID at highway speeds as the filter starts clogging up. If it reaches ..let's say 8 psid ...and never goes above it ..or reaches it (after warm up) at lower and lower engine speeds ..we'll have to conclude that the bypass valve is in operation. Right now it's at around 4 psid almost all the time except through transition ..but it never seems to drift too far away from that figure on the supply side.
edit: Okay ..we should see a terminal PSID of between 12-17 psid.
[ March 29, 2005, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Maybe you should poor sand all over the engine with the valve covers off so we can end the speculation quickly. If you treat the motor with Prolong, it can take that kind of abuse. I saw it on TV
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Actually ..if we weren't trying to also see how long a filter should last to give the "every other OCI" factory recommendation a whirl at seeing how viable it was ...I was thinking of what I could pour in there to speed up the saturation. SynPower Engine Protector ..see if the moly clogs the filter (this may be a later test down the road) ..or used motor oil maybe.
I was trying to explain this to my family (you know my wife is just thrilled about this, don't ya?). I kept saying "Don't look at it as an installation for the van ...look at the van as a "test platform" for the installations. My daughter began referring to the Caravan as THE GUINEA PIG.
I was trying to explain this to my family (you know my wife is just thrilled about this, don't ya?). I kept saying "Don't look at it as an installation for the van ...look at the van as a "test platform" for the installations. My daughter began referring to the Caravan as THE GUINEA PIG.
You could always just pour in a handful of dirt...
This would allow you to test the efficiency of your bypass filter...
Gary,
As long as the filter is physically up to the time of use involved, the pressure drop across the filter is the perfect indicator of filter life. The setup that you have now would be a great option on vehicles...whenever the steady state psid reaches a certain point, change the filter. Now you can easily see what types/brands of filters go what interval before they radically start increasing that pressure drop..
The psid across the filter should stay fairly constant and then all of a sudden start increasing quickly...up to a new plateau which is where the bypass is coming into play. On these auto filters it will be interesting to see just how long they actually could go
see ya
Rando
As long as the filter is physically up to the time of use involved, the pressure drop across the filter is the perfect indicator of filter life. The setup that you have now would be a great option on vehicles...whenever the steady state psid reaches a certain point, change the filter. Now you can easily see what types/brands of filters go what interval before they radically start increasing that pressure drop..
The psid across the filter should stay fairly constant and then all of a sudden start increasing quickly...up to a new plateau which is where the bypass is coming into play. On these auto filters it will be interesting to see just how long they actually could go
see ya
Rando
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For this test I removed the MEGA filter. I figured that if I kept the bypass filter installed ..it could take forever. I really didn't want to do this ..but I'm chomping at the bit waiting for something to happen.quote:
You could always just pour in a handful of dirt...This would allow you to test the efficiency of your bypass filter...
The 1980 or 81 Pukeout diesel had an arrangment like this. In my model, if the filter was clogged, your oil light came on. I'm unsure how they plumbed it, but the later models had a 'change filter' light as well as a pressure idiot light. This would surely be a worthwhile feature in today's vehicles .. agumenting the intelligent car systems already employed. Naturally it would have to be integrated with a OLM or something since, although our cars are getting smarter ..many of our operators are getting more numb
I advocate patience, for the reason you mention above. However, if you just can't help yourself, what about an AutoRX treatment? Clean your engine and clog the filter at the same time.
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That's the sad thing about it. I just, more or less, got done a triple Auto-Rx treatment. One stubborn tick took one more hit of the stuff. Right after that ..I installed my MEGA filter and have used nothing buy HDEO..so the interior should be pretty much spotless.
We'll get there sooner or later.
We'll get there sooner or later.
Yeah I advocate patience too......
otherwise we might be saying-
"The patient died but the operation was a success!"
otherwise we might be saying-
"The patient died but the operation was a success!"
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(visions of cable infomercial sales pitch, "Now how much would you pay??"
)
I hung this cheap gauge on the unit. For the longest time I thought that it was junk or that I had used the wrong sender (I had a couple of cheap gauges laying around). The thing hung limp for about 10 miles ..and, as others have asserted in the past, took about 13 miles to even break a sweat. It hung at 160°F for the longest time. Just about when I pulled in front of my house ..it peaked at what I'm figuring is about 180°F. I will have a good extended highway run the beginning of next week to see how high it goes.
I hung this cheap gauge on the unit. For the longest time I thought that it was junk or that I had used the wrong sender (I had a couple of cheap gauges laying around). The thing hung limp for about 10 miles ..and, as others have asserted in the past, took about 13 miles to even break a sweat. It hung at 160°F for the longest time. Just about when I pulled in front of my house ..it peaked at what I'm figuring is about 180°F. I will have a good extended highway run the beginning of next week to see how high it goes.
Kinda' why I always think vehicle use needs to play a big part in the actual viscosity selection decisions.
Also, remember that $19.95 is the psychological price barrier point. Any higher and it's suggested to go with "just X easy payments."
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Yes, I guess if your car never gets over a 10 mile commute ..dropping a grade would be in your best interest.
Absolutely!!! My REAL cost is buffered into the S&H The $19.95 is placed in a money market for the duration of the money back (less s&h) garrantee.quote:
Also, remember that $19.95 is the psychological price barrier point. Any higher and it's suggested to go with "just X easy payments."
Hey, I just found this thread. It is fascinating. Especially since this engine is nearly identical to the engine in my Montero's. I would like to give my opinion on what is happening. First off, as far as my background I am a Mechanical Engineer and I design industrial piping systems, so I know a little bit about pumps and pressure drops. That doesn't mean I am always right, but since I am an engineer I love to argue technical stuff.
First of all when someone said that the "pressure goes backwards from the engine to the pump" that is correct. If you look at the entire system, you know that at the discharge of all the oil galleys/bearings etc. the pressure (psig - gauge pressure) is 0 psig. Now lets say you go just upstream of a main hydrodynamic bearing oil hole. The oil in that hole has some pressure which is dependant on the resistance it sees to squirt around the bearing surface. When the oil is more viscous the pressure will be higher, when it is les viscous the pressure will be lower. When your bearings start to wear away the pressure will be lower than when they were new. Also, if you increase the load on that bearing (revving the engine, going up a hill) the pressure will increase. Under load, the crank gets offcenter a bit making it harder to squish the oil past the bearing. Now, since the pressure has increase at the discharge of your lube system that increase propagates back through the system to the filter and finally to the pump. It happens quickly. If the fluid was incompressible it would happen immediately, but since it is a bit compressible there is some lag which is why the pressure increases on the filter POUT first, then the pressure increases on the filter PIN gauge. This describes what happens when Gary "blips" the throttle. Does that make any sense?
First of all when someone said that the "pressure goes backwards from the engine to the pump" that is correct. If you look at the entire system, you know that at the discharge of all the oil galleys/bearings etc. the pressure (psig - gauge pressure) is 0 psig. Now lets say you go just upstream of a main hydrodynamic bearing oil hole. The oil in that hole has some pressure which is dependant on the resistance it sees to squirt around the bearing surface. When the oil is more viscous the pressure will be higher, when it is les viscous the pressure will be lower. When your bearings start to wear away the pressure will be lower than when they were new. Also, if you increase the load on that bearing (revving the engine, going up a hill) the pressure will increase. Under load, the crank gets offcenter a bit making it harder to squish the oil past the bearing. Now, since the pressure has increase at the discharge of your lube system that increase propagates back through the system to the filter and finally to the pump. It happens quickly. If the fluid was incompressible it would happen immediately, but since it is a bit compressible there is some lag which is why the pressure increases on the filter POUT first, then the pressure increases on the filter PIN gauge. This describes what happens when Gary "blips" the throttle. Does that make any sense?
Thanks for your efforts here Gary. Great info. Any updates???
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