Mobil Super 5000 5W-20 SN with Particle Test

[CarbonSteel]

Gang,

For those that partook of the OR and AZ specials, here is a VOA of 5W-20 SN with a particle test. Blackstone will send me the complete delineation of size/number of particles via snail mail (not sure why they cannot scan it to PDF or the like) and once received, I will post those numbers here too. I have attached an ISO chart of where the particle test results stand in relation to the scale.

Blackstone commented they were not sure what the titanium is used for in the oil, but based upon other oils that use titanium, I will assume it is an anti-wear agent. Not about relevancy, but the cSt and Flash Point numbers had some variations between the Mobil specifications and the Blackstone results, shown below:

cSt at 100°C:
-- 8.4 (Mobil)
-- 7.48 (Blackstone)

Flash Point°F:
-- 446 (Mobil)
-- 415 (Blackstone)

I plan to start running this in all of my vehicles and provided it has similar results to the other oils, I will continue.

Thoughts and comments welcome!

VOA:

Particle Test:

 

[Turk]

A little Moly would have been nice...

Thanks fellow Gang member!

 

[chubbs1]

Thanks a lot, very interesting with the PC on the virgin sample. I guess those are the additives. Post the micron sizes when you get them!

Peace homey

 

[ltslimjim]

Mobil Super 5000 + 1 can LM MoS2(or half depending on sump size) and ya got the oil you want.

PS: Wonder why the flashpoint and full temp viscosity is off? Lab instruments? Take the average of the two, g2g.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I am have not been an XOM customer (for personal reasons) for years now, so I am not fully up to speed on the specifications of their latest oils. However, is it the SN formula that is the cause of the reduction of moly? Also, is the moly really needed with the introduction of titanium?

 

[REDDOG]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I am have not been an XOM customer (for personal reasons) for years now, so I am not fully up to speed on the specifications of their latest oils. However, is it the SN formula that is the cause of the reduction of moly? Also, is the moly really needed with the introduction of titanium?


Nope. Moly is just one way to get there. People are used to Moly and like to see it there but its one means to an end.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Thanks a lot, very interesting with the PC on the virgin sample. I guess those are the additives. Post the micron sizes when you get them!

Peace homey

Nope, that's grunge. Additives are submicronic for the most part. I'm doing a study now on the cleanliness of virgin oils and you'd be surprised how dirty some are. 2010FX4s dirty oil is cleaner than some of the virgin oils I have test results on. My Motorcraft 10W30 started off at 20/19/16, though it was tested on a top drawer optical particle counter vs a pore machine. I have list of some virgin oils a 23/20/18! Bulk oils may be even worse and be so dirty that the ordinary not-so-efficient oil filter may be able do a lot of scrubbing.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Here is the complete delineation of size/number of particles for the VOA (this seems to be a REALLY clean oil out of the bottle):

ISO Code (2) 14/10
NAS 1638 Class 0
ISO Code (3) 14/13/10
>= 2 micron 232
>= 5 micron 86
>= 10 micron 24
>= 15 micron 9
>= 25 micron 2
>= 50 micron 0
>= 100 micron 0

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I am have not been an XOM customer (for personal reasons) for years now, so I am not fully up to speed on the specifications of their latest oils. However, is it the SN formula that is the cause of the reduction of moly? Also, is the moly really needed with the introduction of titanium?


You need to remember that the Moly XM uses is differant than what the others use. They have a patent on it, and their moly doesn't require the same PPM as the others but does the same job.

 

[The Critic]

Wow, that is a very strong starting TBN for a conventional oil.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I am have not been an XOM customer (for personal reasons) for years now, so I am not fully up to speed on the specifications of their latest oils. However, is it the SN formula that is the cause of the reduction of moly? Also, is the moly really needed with the introduction of titanium?


Mobil is using Ti/Na in their mid tier oils. Valvoline and Kendall are using in in their entire line up.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I am have not been an XOM customer (for personal reasons) for years now, so I am not fully up to speed on the specifications of their latest oils. However, is it the SN formula that is the cause of the reduction of moly? Also, is the moly really needed with the introduction of titanium?


Mobil is using Ti/Na in their mid tier oils. Valvoline and Kendall are using in in their entire line up.


I dont get what your saying here?
Valvoline doesnt use any TI but they use a lot of NA
Kendall doesnt use any NA but the most TI.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Mobil Super 5000 + 1 can LM MoS2(or half depending on sump size) and ya got the oil you want.

PS: Wonder why the flashpoint and full temp viscosity is off? Lab instruments? Take the average of the two, g2g.

WRONG!! If this oil needed Moly Mobil would have added it. The best long life engine oils from Castrol, Mobil, Liqui Moly and even Amsoil don't contain Moly.
The last thing you should do to a good Mobil oil is throw in a can of snake oil.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Mobil Super 5000 + 1 can LM MoS2(or half depending on sump size) and ya got the oil you want.

PS: Wonder why the flashpoint and full temp viscosity is off? Lab instruments? Take the average of the two, g2g.

WRONG!! If this oil needed Moly Mobil would have added it. The best long life engine oils from Castrol, Mobil, Liqui Moly and even Amsoil don't contain Moly.
The last thing you should do to a good Mobil oil is throw in a can of snake oil.


WRONG. How many times you gotta be told. Amsoil contains moly. Even Pablo,the forum Amsoil dealer told you that yet you choose to ignore it.
They began using moly a few years ago,once the industry accepted it as a friction modifier.
Pm Pablo. I'm sure he will be happy to inform you. Until then quit posting incorrect info. I know the forum should be used to you posting bogus info by now but a guy would think you would at least try.
You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

And mobils best oil,their 0w-40 contains moly. If it was so bad why put it in their top oil? Amsoils SSO line contains moly,and that's their 25000 mile oil. Get your facts straight bud.

Back to topic. From what I've read about the titanium add it leaves a layer on the parts when hot and once it cools it becomes super hard. Then at start up its sacrificial.

 

[Clevy]

Sunkship.
From page 2 of the voa sub forum. Amsoil SSO 5w-30



ALUMINUM 3
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 1
COPPER 1
LEAD 0
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 145
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 1
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 1
BORON 237
SILICON 5
SODIUM 5
CALCIUM 3707
MAGNESIUM 16
PHOSPHORUS 730
ZINC 806
BARIUM 0

SUS @ 210F 60.8
cSt @ 100C 10.45
FLASHPOINT 455
FUEL % -
ANTIFREEZE % -
WATER 0.0
INSOLUBLES % 0.0


So Amsoil doesn't use moly eh?
You have no credibility.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Mobil Super 5000 + 1 can LM MoS2(or half depending on sump size) and ya got the oil you want.

PS: Wonder why the flashpoint and full temp viscosity is off? Lab instruments? Take the average of the two, g2g.

WRONG!! If this oil needed Moly Mobil would have added it. The best long life engine oils from Castrol, Mobil, Liqui Moly and even Amsoil don't contain Moly.
The last thing you should do to a good Mobil oil is throw in a can of snake oil.


WRONG. How many times you gotta be told. Amsoil contains moly. Even Pablo,the forum Amsoil dealer told you that yet you choose to ignore it.
They began using moly a few years ago,once the industry accepted it as a friction modifier.
Pm Pablo. I'm sure he will be happy to inform you. Until then quit posting incorrect info. I know the forum should be used to you posting bogus info by now but a guy would think you would at least try.
You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

And mobils best oil,their 0w-40 contains moly. If it was so bad why put it in their top oil? Amsoils SSO line contains moly,and that's their 25000 mile oil. Get your facts straight bud.

Back to topic. From what I've read about the titanium add it leaves a layer on the parts when hot and once it cools it becomes super hard. Then at start up its sacrificial.


Some of the Amsoil oils do contain Moly, but I have seen a VOA of one that has no Moly. Many of the other smaller oil companies like Mag have Moly free synthetic oils, although I was surprised to see a Mobil conventional oil without Moly.

This is the VOA of Amsoil break in oil:
Moly free Amsoil

Moly free Motul VOA:
Moly free Motul 5/30

Yet another Moly free Mobil VOA:
Mobil 5/20

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Mobil Super 5000 + 1 can LM MoS2(or half depending on sump size) and ya got the oil you want.

PS: Wonder why the flashpoint and full temp viscosity is off? Lab instruments? Take the average of the two, g2g.

WRONG!! If this oil needed Moly Mobil would have added it. The best long life engine oils from Castrol, Mobil, Liqui Moly and even Amsoil don't contain Moly.
The last thing you should do to a good Mobil oil is throw in a can of snake oil.


WRONG. How many times you gotta be told. Amsoil contains moly. Even Pablo,the forum Amsoil dealer told you that yet you choose to ignore it.
They began using moly a few years ago,once the industry accepted it as a friction modifier.
Pm Pablo. I'm sure he will be happy to inform you. Until then quit posting incorrect info. I know the forum should be used to you posting bogus info by now but a guy would think you would at least try.
You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

And mobils best oil,their 0w-40 contains moly. If it was so bad why put it in their top oil? Amsoils SSO line contains moly,and that's their 25000 mile oil. Get your facts straight bud.

Back to topic. From what I've read about the titanium add it leaves a layer on the parts when hot and once it cools it becomes super hard. Then at start up its sacrificial.


Some of the Amsoil oils do contain Moly, but I have seen a VOA of one that has no Moly. Many of the other smaller oil companies like Mag have Moly free synthetic oils, although I was surprised to see a Mobil conventional oil without Moly.

This is the VOA of Amsoil break in oil:
Moly free Amsoil

Moly free Motul VOA:
Moly free Motul 5/30

Yet another Moly free Mobil VOA:
Mobil 5/20


The thing you might be missing that is Mobil Super, is not part of the Mobil 1 line up. Mobil super is using titanium instead of moly. Titanium is becoming a more common replacement for moly.

 

[skyship]

I was surprised to see the new Shell Rotella is now Moly free:

Moly free Rotella.

The 3 ppm in the second column is just contamination from some place. My own UOA shows 5 ppm of Moly and I have been using Moly free Synthoil for nearly 2 years.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: skyship
I was surprised to see the new Shell Rotella is now Moly free:

Moly free Rotella.

The 3 ppm in the second column is just contamination from some place. My own UOA shows 5 ppm of Moly and I have been using Moly free Synthoil for nearly 2 years.


With the higher levels of zinc it might not have needed it. I also read a journal article that some oils with the higher levels of moly had higher engine deposits. I can't remember why that was or where I read it at.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: skyship
I was surprised to see the new Shell Rotella is now Moly free:

Moly free Rotella.

The 3 ppm in the second column is just contamination from some place. My own UOA shows 5 ppm of Moly and I have been using Moly free Synthoil for nearly 2 years.


With the higher levels of zinc it might not have needed it. I also read a journal article that some oils with the higher levels of moly had higher engine deposits. I can't remember why that was or where I read it at.


That's true and if you look up the add pack of a good long life oil it often has only 50 or 60 ppm of Moly. An add pack has to cover a number of different functions and is restricted in volume terms to an amount that does not compramise the basic lubricating function of the oil, so if you use a lot of Moly like Redline does, you have to reduce something else, which is often the detergent or dispersant levels.