Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: buster
SN is better than SM.

A Mobil rep in National Lubes mag said the AFE oils are on the level of EP in terms of high temperature protection, which means they are a tad better than the already very good regular M1. I found that interesting. Both the 0w20 and 0w30 were on the GM approval for 4718M spec..

yes, that is the one shown on the bottle label

 

[kr_bitog]

In the past, someone told me 0w-30 is better than 5w-30 due to more group 4(PAO) content compared with the group 3, as can be seen from lower pour point. However, not sure if that is really true.

However, the certification on GM4718M and A5 might indicate the new formula may have something better than the old one, since couple years ago the AFE was not certified, and even the regular M1 was only intermittently certified for A5.

 

[Oldwolf]

I am using it in my Prius.

 

[kr_bitog]

I noticed M1 website does not mention anything about turbo on the AFE webpage, but they do on the regular M1. However, as the bottle label shows the AFE protect better than regular M1 on high temperature.

So what I guess is AFE has better basestock to prevent oxidation, but some of the addpack may not burn as clean as on regular M1, which more likely to happen in turbo application.
FYI, AFE SN has less Zn and P than regular M1.

So besides Zn, P and Mo, what is typically changed for friction modifier on SN oil compared to SM and what is the burning characteristic ?

 

[johnsmellsalot]

I think the only reason they call it advanced fuel economy is because it is 0W-30 instead of 5W-30. That means it has a lower viscosity when cold. Once the car is at normal operating temperature, it's probably not going to give you better gas mileage.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I think the only reason they call it advanced fuel economy is because it is 0W-30 instead of 5W-30. That means it has a lower viscosity when cold. Once the car is at normal operating temperature, it's probably not going to give you better gas mileage.


not true.

Its a different additive formula for lower friction.. which isnt the same as lower wear.
It also has better low temperature properties but that's secondary to the lower friction additive package.

 

[modularv8]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I think the only reason they call it advanced fuel economy is because it is 0W-30 instead of 5W-30. That means it has a lower viscosity when cold. Once the car is at normal operating temperature, it's probably not going to give you better gas mileage.


not true.

Its a different additive formula for lower friction.. which isnt the same as lower wear.
It also has better low temperature properties but that's secondary to the lower friction additive package.



Take two motor oils with the exact same viscometric properties (same HTHSV @150C), the one with the lower MRV/CCS will provide greater fuel economy across all operating temperatures. Meaning, that even at typical engine oil operating temperature (~200F), the oil with the lower CCS/MRV will provide greater fuel economy at that temperature. One study showed the difference to be about 3% increase in MPG. Depends on the CCS/MRV value relative to another motor oil. As far as M1 AFE, these two offerings have the lowest published CCS/MRV by a large margin over other synthetic motor oils.

I believe XOM is achieving these low CCS/MRV values with higher quality base fluids. The other way would be to add more VM polymers, but that doesn't seem to be the case since M1 0w20 AFE does not sacrifice HTSHV @ 150C to achieve the low MRV.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: modularv8
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I think the only reason they call it advanced fuel economy is because it is 0W-30 instead of 5W-30. That means it has a lower viscosity when cold. Once the car is at normal operating temperature, it's probably not going to give you better gas mileage.


not true.

Its a different additive formula for lower friction.. which isnt the same as lower wear.
It also has better low temperature properties but that's secondary to the lower friction additive package.



Take two motor oils with the exact same viscometric properties (same HTHSV @150C), the one with the lower MRV/CCS will provide greater fuel economy across all operating temperatures. Meaning, that even at typical engine oil operating temperature (~200F), the oil with the lower CCS/MRV will provide greater fuel economy at that temperature. One study showed the difference to be about 3% increase in MPG. Depends on the CCS/MRV value relative to another motor oil. As far as M1 AFE, these two offerings have the lowest published CCS/MRV by a large margin over other synthetic motor oils.

I believe XOM is achieving these low CCS/MRV values with higher quality base fluids. The other way would be to add more VM polymers, but that doesn't seem to be the case since M1 0w20 AFE does not sacrifice HTSHV @ 150C to achieve the low MRV.


This from XM seems to back up what you say in regard to the higher base stock with the AFE oils. See just below the crankshaft. Here is the link.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx

 

[buster]

I agree. The AFE oils are good juice.


Originally Posted By: modularv8
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I think the only reason they call it advanced fuel economy is because it is 0W-30 instead of 5W-30. That means it has a lower viscosity when cold. Once the car is at normal operating temperature, it's probably not going to give you better gas mileage.


not true.

Its a different additive formula for lower friction.. which isnt the same as lower wear.
It also has better low temperature properties but that's secondary to the lower friction additive package.



Take two motor oils with the exact same viscometric properties (same HTHSV @150C), the one with the lower MRV/CCS will provide greater fuel economy across all operating temperatures. Meaning, that even at typical engine oil operating temperature (~200F), the oil with the lower CCS/MRV will provide greater fuel economy at that temperature. One study showed the difference to be about 3% increase in MPG. Depends on the CCS/MRV value relative to another motor oil. As far as M1 AFE, these two offerings have the lowest published CCS/MRV by a large margin over other synthetic motor oils.

I believe XOM is achieving these low CCS/MRV values with higher quality base fluids. The other way would be to add more VM polymers, but that doesn't seem to be the case since M1 0w20 AFE does not sacrifice HTSHV @ 150C t



o achieve the low MRV.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: modularv8
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I think the only reason they call it advanced fuel economy is because it is 0W-30 instead of 5W-30. That means it has a lower viscosity when cold. Once the car is at normal operating temperature, it's probably not going to give you better gas mileage.

not true.
Its a different additive formula for lower friction.. which isnt the same as lower wear.
It also has better low temperature properties but that's secondary to the lower friction additive package.

Take two motor oils with the exact same viscometric properties (same HTHSV @150C), the one with the lower MRV/CCS will provide greater fuel economy across all operating temperatures. Meaning, that even at typical engine oil operating temperature (~200F), the oil with the lower CCS/MRV will provide greater fuel economy at that temperature. One study showed the difference to be about 3% increase in MPG. Depends on the CCS/MRV value relative to another motor oil. As far as M1 AFE, these two offerings have the lowest published CCS/MRV by a large margin over other synthetic motor oils.
I believe XOM is achieving these low CCS/MRV values with higher quality base fluids. The other way would be to add more VM polymers, but that doesn't seem to be the case since M1 0w20 AFE does not sacrifice HTSHV @ 150C to achieve the low MRV.


All things being equal (add' pack's) fuel economy correlates with HTHS viscosity at normal operating temp's and oils with the highest VI's will have correspondingly higher fuel economy than lower VI oils with the same HTHS vis.

Unless one operates routinely (cold unaided starts) in a sub-zero environment, an oils extreme cold temperature performance (MRV spec's) has no bearing on an oils above freezing fuel economy.
The main advantage of 0W-XX oils in terms of fuel economy is due to their generally higher VI's thereby being lighter at typical start-up temp's vs their 5W-30 and heavier counterparts.

Interestingly enough M1 AFE 0W-20 is actually a fairly heavy 20wt oil with it's thicker than average HTHS vis of 2.7cP. This is offset by it's high 173 VI so it will be lighter than all 5W-20 dino's and most 5W-20 syn's on start-up.

But it pales in comparison to the Toyota Brand 0W-20 which XOM actually formulates for Toyota of NA. This oil would probabily be better thought of as a 0W-15 (a grade Toyota and Honda have proposed) since it shears by design about 10% immediately in service. That in conjunction with it's unprecedentedly high 214 VI makes this the lightest SM/SN oil one can buy at operating temp's and at typical start-up temp's.
It's about 30% lighter than M1 AFE 0W-20 at room temperature and more than 40% at 0C. To further maximize fuel economy this oil also contains a boatload of moly (700 ppm).