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Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI #2174131
02/17/11 06:25 PM
02/17/11 06:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
75% highway at 70 to 80 MPH, 25% urban.



2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174150
02/17/11 06:39 PM
02/17/11 06:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Pacnw
saaber1 Offline
saaber1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Pacnw
Interesting to see a 10k run on this oil. I'm used to seeing DI petrol engines or race engines etc. with lower OCIs. TBN higher than I would have thought. Viscosity loss 3%. What were the earlier oils you used? Interesting that moly is 26 when virgin is around 0 and it can't really be residual form previous fill. Likewise magnesium but that could be explained from residual oil from previous fill.


"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174158
02/17/11 06:49 PM
02/17/11 06:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Saber, I'll ask the owner what the previous oils were.

CJ-4 does allow small amounts of moly. (Amsoil DEO has some)


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174242
02/17/11 08:29 PM
02/17/11 08:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Pacnw
saaber1 Offline
saaber1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Pacnw
Originally Posted By: BobFout
CJ-4 does allow small amounts of moly. (Amsoil DEO has some)

There are a couple VOAs of the post 2008 formula on BITOG and none show moly over 3ppm. I wonder if the formula has changed? Here is one of the VOA threads: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1264593 Interestingly, Dave at Redline was unaware that they dropped moly from the formula even after it was being sold. So that VOA was a bit of an education for him too I guess. Maybe that's why we need BITOG ha ha.


"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174271
02/17/11 09:04 PM
02/17/11 09:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
I'll ask him to send a VOA sample off. We'll find out!


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: saaber1] #2174529
02/18/11 08:26 AM
02/18/11 08:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Interesting to see a 10k run on this oil. I'm used to seeing DI petrol engines or race engines etc. with lower OCIs. TBN higher than I would have thought. Viscosity loss 3%. What were the earlier oils you used? Interesting that moly is 26 when virgin is around 0 and it can't really be residual form previous fill. Likewise magnesium but that could be explained from residual oil from previous fill.


Mobil 1 TDT since 56K miles.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: saaber1] #2174838
02/18/11 02:33 PM
02/18/11 02:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Originally Posted By: BobFout
CJ-4 does allow small amounts of moly. (Amsoil DEO has some)

There are a couple VOAs of the post 2008 formula on BITOG and none show moly over 3ppm. I wonder if the formula has changed? Here is one of the VOA threads: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1264593 Interestingly, Dave at Redline was unaware that they dropped moly from the formula even after it was being sold. So that VOA was a bit of an education for him too I guess. Maybe that's why we need BITOG ha ha.


I heard back from Dave. RL 5w40 should have around 100 ppm of moly.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174928
02/18/11 04:43 PM
02/18/11 04:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 528
Arizona
SIXSPEED Offline
SIXSPEED  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 528
Arizona
Originally Posted By: BobFout
I heard back from Dave. RL 5w40 should have around 100 ppm of moly.

Slightly higher levels of moly and a lot more Mg than I'm used to seeing in their 5W40. I suppose the Mg is lingering from the previous fill. Looks good for a 10K+ mile sample ... very shear stable and lots of TBN life left. I believe Blackstone's universal averages are based on half the miles you had on your oil.

The most recent RL 5W40 VOA I saw was sampled 5/12/09 and had a moly concentration of 711 ppm. shocked

Last edited by SIXSPEED; 02/18/11 04:56 PM.
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174935
02/18/11 04:52 PM
02/18/11 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,358
MS
Ben99GT Offline
Ben99GT  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,358
MS
Originally Posted By: BobFout
I heard back from Dave. RL 5w40 should have around 100 ppm of moly.


Cool, so it's been tweaked a little?


2001 F150 Supercrew 4.6 - 321,000 miles- PP 5W-20/MC FL-820S
2011 Shelby GT500 SVTPP - 705 RWHP - PP Euro 0W-40/Wix 51372XP

Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2174943
02/18/11 04:59 PM
02/18/11 04:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 528
Arizona
SIXSPEED Offline
SIXSPEED  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 528
Arizona
If their 5W40 formulation changed to include 100 ppm moly, that would be perfect. I was considering mixing in a quart of 10W40 to a 5W40 fill to bring up moly to about 100 ppm.

Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: SIXSPEED] #2174989
02/18/11 05:53 PM
02/18/11 05:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED
Originally Posted By: BobFout
I heard back from Dave. RL 5w40 should have around 100 ppm of moly.

Slightly higher levels of moly and a lot more Mg than I'm used to seeing in their 5W40. I suppose the Mg is lingering from the previous fill. Looks good for a 10K+ mile sample ... very shear stable and lots of TBN life left. I believe Blackstone's universal averages are based on half the miles you had on your oil.

The most recent RL 5W40 VOA I saw was sampled 5/12/09 and had a moly concentration of 711 ppm. shocked


This is before CJ-4 compliance, hence the huge drop in moly.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: SIXSPEED] #2174992
02/18/11 05:57 PM
02/18/11 05:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED
If their 5W40 formulation changed to include 100 ppm moly, that would be perfect. I was considering mixing in a quart of 10W40 to a 5W40 fill to bring up moly to about 100 ppm.


Their 10w40 is not CJ-4, should have the full ~950 ppm of moly.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2175130
02/18/11 09:29 PM
02/18/11 09:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Pacnw
saaber1 Offline
saaber1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,877
Pacnw
I would guess that they are using it as an antioxidant at those lower levels rather than as a friction modifier as used in the higher moly formulations. As I understand it, large amounts are needed to act as a friction modifier due to surface competition with the esters. As I recall from extremely limited data, I got the impression that TAN buildup seemed higher on the high-moly formulas than the no-moly formulas. This makes sense as the amount of sulphur containing additives can influence acid buildup.

Interesting that they went from zero moly to 100ppm. I wonder if TBN is also impacted by the formula change.?


"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: BobFout] #2175150
02/18/11 09:58 PM
02/18/11 09:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 528
Arizona
SIXSPEED Offline
SIXSPEED  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 528
Arizona
I plan to buy some RL 5W40 in the next month. I will send a sample in for a VOA; then we'll know better what's in it. The most recent RL 5W40 VOAs I've come across are from 2008 and 2009.

Last edited by SIXSPEED; 02/18/11 10:00 PM.
Re: Redline 5w40, 10K miles, 2.0 PD TDI [Re: saaber1] #2175917
02/19/11 07:57 PM
02/19/11 07:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline OP
BobFout  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Originally Posted By: saaber1
I would guess that they are using it as an antioxidant at those lower levels rather than as a friction modifier as used in the higher moly formulations. As I understand it, large amounts are needed to act as a friction modifier due to surface competition with the esters. As I recall from extremely limited data, I got the impression that TAN buildup seemed higher on the high-moly formulas than the no-moly formulas. This makes sense as the amount of sulphur containing additives can influence acid buildup.

Interesting that they went from zero moly to 100ppm. I wonder if TBN is also impacted by the formula change.?


It [RL 5w40] went from many hundreds of ppm of Moly to 100 RPM. Previous VOAs (non CJ-4 5w40) still had high moly levels.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
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