Toyota & Honda Require Special Brake Fluids?

[SubLGT]

Both Toyota and Honda recently announced recalls regarding brake fluid leaks.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-10-22-toyota22_ST_N.htm?csp=34money

"..............But this recall was unusual in that both automakers said the problem wouldn't occur if owners had simply followed automakers' recommendations to use only their branded brake fluid.

In its filing with U.S. regulators, Toyota said its brake fluids contain polymers that act as lubricants. If the wrong kind of brake fluid is added, a rubber seal in the brake master cylinder can dry out and curl, causing the leak.............."

".................Toyota has since revised the master-cylinder design so that it holds up to different types of brake fluid."

 

[Scienceman]

You Don't see Ford's like that....
But it's simple. If your owners manuel says use their fluid, use their fluid.

 

[Ken2]

I read that about the polymers in the brake fluid and it makes no sense.

1--The general public doesn't add brake fluid to their car. They have no clue. If their is a warning light or other problem, they'll take it to a shop. The shop has no notice about anything special regarding brake fluid.

2--If Toyota uses parts that really requires a special brake fluid, why didn't they make it well known to everyone in the business, just like special transmission fluid is needed in certain transmissions?

 

[mikered30]

I know toyota does not make their own fluid, so who is their supplier?

 

[J_Sap]

Originally Posted By: mikered30
I know toyota does not make their own fluid, so who is their supplier?


I was thinking the exact same thing.

My Toyota manual says to use Dot 3 or 4 brake fluid, no mention of anything else. Looks to me like Toyota is trying to pass the blame on the consumer instead of themselves.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: J_Sap
Originally Posted By: mikered30
I know toyota does not make their own fluid, so who is their supplier?


I was thinking the exact same thing.

My Toyota manual says to use Dot 3 or 4 brake fluid, no mention of anything else. Looks to me like Toyota is trying to pass the blame on the consumer instead of themselves.


Bingo.

I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure the lid on the fluid reservoir on my wife's Honda says "DOT 3" not "Special Honda Brake Fluid". I wouldn't be surprised if they both had the same gasket/o-ring supplier and they're ashamed to cop to a build quality issue. Easier to blame the consumer.

 

[onion]

My '04 Accord owner's manual says DOT 3.

 

[Pablo]

Honda in the 2006 Ody says:

"Always use Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3. If it is not available, you should use only DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid....as a temporary replacement"

"Using any non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system. Have the brake system flushed and refilled with Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3 as soon as possible"

Seems like this pushes DOT limits on compatibility, but I'm no DOT BF expert.

 

[onion]

GOD [censored] [censored] ALL TO [censored].

This Honda-only [censored] is really starting to [censored] me off.

 

[J_Sap]

Originally Posted By: onion
GOD [censored] [censored] ALL TO [censored].

This Honda-only [censored] is really starting to [censored] me off.


I agree.

It's a shame Honda does not license or allow other companies to make any Honda fluid (beside motor oil). It's going to hurt there sales if people start to look at American cars and realize that they can buy many fluids found at places like AutoZone to Walmart but on Honda's and other foreign cars they have to go to a dealership.

My GF has a Civic and I was taken aback at how much PS fluid and coolant was; also it sucks to have to either order them online or go to the parts department with limited hours. If they really cared about the customer they would license all their fluids so many companies could make them. It would be easier for consumers to buy the products, cheaper, and they would not have bad press from recalls about incompatible fluids.

 

[Pablo]

I need to stop agreeing with (the) onion.

I also can only think about the reaction if this was GM, Ford or Chrysler.

 

[onion]

And I know that I COULD use non-Honda fluids throughout the vehicle, and it would probably work fine. But there are just enough rumors, bulletins, and horror-stories out there to make me think that that might be a bad idea.

 

[KrisZ]

This is such a crock of [censored]. The cars they're recalling are not that old, I bet most of these cars never had their fluid changed anyways, so in essence they are blaming their own fluid.

Just one more tactic to scare public into buying dealers overpriced fluids, they knew they had to recall these cars, so they put this wrong fluid spin on it, in hopes of getting some money in, pathetic and at this point Ford and Hyundai are looking better and better.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: onion
GOD [censored] [censored] ALL TO [censored].

This Honda-only [censored] is really starting to [censored] me off.


I've found it pretty annoying as well.

According to the interwebs, the fluid is a super low-moisture version, and the only "suitable" substitute is Castrol LMA. Only problem is that you can't find that anywhere either...

I ended up doing a bulk purchase of fluids online to amortize the cost of shipping, and it wasn't that horrible. Annoying, but not horrible.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Honda in the 2006 Ody says:

"Always use Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3. If it is not available, you should use only DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid....as a temporary replacement"

"Using any non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system. Have the brake system flushed and refilled with Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3 as soon as possible"

Seems like this pushes DOT limits on compatibility, but I'm no DOT BF expert.


I got out my owner's manual and had a look. It says exactly the same thing.

Of course, it also says: "It is highly recommended that you use Honda Motor Oil in your vehicle for optimum engine protection." And nobody here buys that.

 

[onion]

Quote:
I've found it pretty annoying as well.

According to the interwebs, the fluid is a super low-moisture version, and the only "suitable" substitute is Castrol LMA. Only problem is that you can't find that anywhere either...

I ended up doing a bulk purchase of fluids online to amortize the cost of shipping, and it wasn't that horrible. Annoying, but not horrible.


Where would you recommend buying Honda fluids online?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: onion

I got out my owner's manual and had a look. It says exactly the same thing.

Of course, it also says: "It is highly recommended that you use Honda Motor Oil in your vehicle for optimum engine protection." And nobody here buys that.



Yeah, the wording seemed a little different (stronger) on the brake fluid and PS fluid than motor oil, though.

Before we castigate Honda too much, my Ford owner's manual has fairly similar language regarding Motorcraft parts. It really straddles the fence of "strongly recommending" and "requiring" on a lot of things.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: onion

Where would you recommend buying Honda fluids online?



I've had good luck with this place , but shipping is a little less to me because it's NoCal to Seattle. Still, it shouldn't be too much more out your way.

It only makes sense to do if you're doing a fair bit of stuff at once to amortize the shipping, but it was definitely the way to go for me.

 

[Jim 5]

A little googling on LMA discloses that ATE makes a brake fluid that Dot 3 and 4 compatible is also very low moisture activity and could be just the thing for Honda's if you don't want the honda fluid.

Short Article on Brake fluid

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Honda in the 2006 Ody says:

"Always use Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3. If it is not available, you should use only DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid....as a temporary replacement"

"Using any non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system. Have the brake system flushed and refilled with Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3 as soon as possible"..................


Im wondering if Toyota had the same kind of wording in their manuals for these recalled vehicles: 2005-06 Avalon, 2004-06 Highlander, 2004-2006 Lexus RX, 2006 GS and 2006 IS.