I don't mean to sound like I'm railing on B&S engines. It's just that for me I tried two different mowers that had B&S engines on them and I had trouble. Incidentally, so did a mower my neighbor used to have. His newer mower also has a Honda GCV160 on it. The HOndas I have start easily and run smoothly. That's all I'm after. I remember the B&S engines would take alot of effort to get running. Never owned the B&S 6.5 hp engine. MAybe its better (like found on Snappers and Toros). For me Hondas have been great.
Why all the fuss over Honda products
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I bought a B&S powered edger 8 weeks ago. Leaks oil after 30 minutes, but starts almost as easily as my honda.
Have owned a number of tecumseh engines... they got much better in the mid-80s IMO and I never had any problems with them. I did buy a commercial grade 16hp 1-lung that had unknown huge hours on it (owner owned 4 acres of lawn). throttle bushings were worn badly but after new rod/piston it ran ok... solid motor.
But the honda mower engine is plain elegant. Starts 1st,2nd pull. consumes 0 oil (now that it's not on M1). Quieter exhaust note. Sips fuel.
Just bought a honda genset using the gx100 engine. I've only test run it. the fuel numbers on it are impossible to believe, they are so low. Once fuel hit the carb, it started right up. It's non CA compliant, and the exhaust doesn't smell as clean as the CA-ok mower.
Also own a robin-subaru 5.5hp. It's as quiet as the hondas, doesn't consume much fuel (similar to the mower) and starts 2nd.3rd pull every time. Honda starts slightly easier.
However, the honda is picky about fuel. Put el-cheapo gas in it and it gives fits. a drop of water in the gas and it gives fits (the gas-burner B&S just swallows bad gas and keeps running). Carb clogs pretty easily too, and the in-tank screen is too open to grab the stuff that would clog the carb.
I've seen 20 year old honda mowers, owned by people that don't know your supposed to change oil, running here on the weekends.
Homepower mag did a "do it yourself genset" article a few years back. they put huge hours on gensets to charge batteries on solar power systems when the sun doesn't shine. said something like 600 hrs typical lifespan loaded B&S, 700 hrs typical lifespan loaded tecumseh, and since they installed an old honda, something like several thousand hours so far and no problems. That says something...
M
Have owned a number of tecumseh engines... they got much better in the mid-80s IMO and I never had any problems with them. I did buy a commercial grade 16hp 1-lung that had unknown huge hours on it (owner owned 4 acres of lawn). throttle bushings were worn badly but after new rod/piston it ran ok... solid motor.
But the honda mower engine is plain elegant. Starts 1st,2nd pull. consumes 0 oil (now that it's not on M1). Quieter exhaust note. Sips fuel.
Just bought a honda genset using the gx100 engine. I've only test run it. the fuel numbers on it are impossible to believe, they are so low. Once fuel hit the carb, it started right up. It's non CA compliant, and the exhaust doesn't smell as clean as the CA-ok mower.
Also own a robin-subaru 5.5hp. It's as quiet as the hondas, doesn't consume much fuel (similar to the mower) and starts 2nd.3rd pull every time. Honda starts slightly easier.
However, the honda is picky about fuel. Put el-cheapo gas in it and it gives fits. a drop of water in the gas and it gives fits (the gas-burner B&S just swallows bad gas and keeps running). Carb clogs pretty easily too, and the in-tank screen is too open to grab the stuff that would clog the carb.
I've seen 20 year old honda mowers, owned by people that don't know your supposed to change oil, running here on the weekends.
Homepower mag did a "do it yourself genset" article a few years back. they put huge hours on gensets to charge batteries on solar power systems when the sun doesn't shine. said something like 600 hrs typical lifespan loaded B&S, 700 hrs typical lifespan loaded tecumseh, and since they installed an old honda, something like several thousand hours so far and no problems. That says something...
M
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usually you get what you pay for . As all purchases why pay for something you do not need.
Originally Posted By: meep
I bought a B&S powered edger 8 weeks ago. Leaks oil after 30 minutes, but starts almost as easily as my honda.
Have owned a number of tecumseh engines... they got much better in the mid-80s IMO and I never had any problems with them. I did buy a commercial grade 16hp 1-lung that had unknown huge hours on it (owner owned 4 acres of lawn). throttle bushings were worn badly but after new rod/piston it ran ok... solid motor.
But the honda mower engine is plain elegant. Starts 1st,2nd pull. consumes 0 oil (now that it's not on M1). Quieter exhaust note. Sips fuel.
Just bought a honda genset using the gx100 engine. I've only test run it. the fuel numbers on it are impossible to believe, they are so low. Once fuel hit the carb, it started right up. It's non CA compliant, and the exhaust doesn't smell as clean as the CA-ok mower.
Also own a robin-subaru 5.5hp. It's as quiet as the hondas, doesn't consume much fuel (similar to the mower) and starts 2nd.3rd pull every time. Honda starts slightly easier.
However, the honda is picky about fuel. Put el-cheapo gas in it and it gives fits. a drop of water in the gas and it gives fits (the gas-burner B&S just swallows bad gas and keeps running). Carb clogs pretty easily too, and the in-tank screen is too open to grab the stuff that would clog the carb.
I've seen 20 year old honda mowers, owned by people that don't know your supposed to change oil, running here on the weekends.
Homepower mag did a "do it yourself genset" article a few years back. they put huge hours on gensets to charge batteries on solar power systems when the sun doesn't shine. said something like 600 hrs typical lifespan loaded B&S, 700 hrs typical lifespan loaded tecumseh, and since they installed an old honda, something like several thousand hours so far and no problems. That says something...
M
What caught my eye in this post was the statement that your Honda engine did not use oil "now that its not on M1". Did you have excessive consumption using M1? What M1 did you use? Reason I ask is that I have a Honda 160 GCV on my mower, purchased in 2000, with about 475 hours on it presently, according to the hour meter. It has always been on M1, since the first oil change at 5 hours. It has never used any oil in a one year OCI. This has averaged being 60 hours, and I have used M1 5W30. One year, I used some 0W30 M1, and still no oil usage.
What kind of oil did you replace the M1 with?
I bought a B&S powered edger 8 weeks ago. Leaks oil after 30 minutes, but starts almost as easily as my honda.
Have owned a number of tecumseh engines... they got much better in the mid-80s IMO and I never had any problems with them. I did buy a commercial grade 16hp 1-lung that had unknown huge hours on it (owner owned 4 acres of lawn). throttle bushings were worn badly but after new rod/piston it ran ok... solid motor.
But the honda mower engine is plain elegant. Starts 1st,2nd pull. consumes 0 oil (now that it's not on M1). Quieter exhaust note. Sips fuel.
Just bought a honda genset using the gx100 engine. I've only test run it. the fuel numbers on it are impossible to believe, they are so low. Once fuel hit the carb, it started right up. It's non CA compliant, and the exhaust doesn't smell as clean as the CA-ok mower.
Also own a robin-subaru 5.5hp. It's as quiet as the hondas, doesn't consume much fuel (similar to the mower) and starts 2nd.3rd pull every time. Honda starts slightly easier.
However, the honda is picky about fuel. Put el-cheapo gas in it and it gives fits. a drop of water in the gas and it gives fits (the gas-burner B&S just swallows bad gas and keeps running). Carb clogs pretty easily too, and the in-tank screen is too open to grab the stuff that would clog the carb.
I've seen 20 year old honda mowers, owned by people that don't know your supposed to change oil, running here on the weekends.
Homepower mag did a "do it yourself genset" article a few years back. they put huge hours on gensets to charge batteries on solar power systems when the sun doesn't shine. said something like 600 hrs typical lifespan loaded B&S, 700 hrs typical lifespan loaded tecumseh, and since they installed an old honda, something like several thousand hours so far and no problems. That says something...
M
What caught my eye in this post was the statement that your Honda engine did not use oil "now that its not on M1". Did you have excessive consumption using M1? What M1 did you use? Reason I ask is that I have a Honda 160 GCV on my mower, purchased in 2000, with about 475 hours on it presently, according to the hour meter. It has always been on M1, since the first oil change at 5 hours. It has never used any oil in a one year OCI. This has averaged being 60 hours, and I have used M1 5W30. One year, I used some 0W30 M1, and still no oil usage.
What kind of oil did you replace the M1 with?
I like my GCV 160, although its my first mower so i dont know any better.
Honda GX engine is probably the best designed engine for durability. Even the chinese made generators are using GX knock off's. I am not sure why Honda would not pursue them for copyright or whatever infringment. But, if you have one of those China made generators and need parts, look for a comparable GX engine for parts at the Honda dealer.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
I like my GCV 160, although its my first mower so i dont know any better.
Take my word for it, you made a very wise choice with the Honda engine.
I like my GCV 160, although its my first mower so i dont know any better.
Take my word for it, you made a very wise choice with the Honda engine.
Originally Posted By: blueiedgod
Honda GX engine is probably the best designed engine for durability. Even the chinese made generators are using GX knock off's. I am not sure why Honda would not pursue them for copyright or whatever infringment. But, if you have one of those China made generators and need parts, look for a comparable GX engine for parts at the Honda dealer.
Patents eventually expire. A lot of what people consider to be Chinese knock offs are just expire design patents.
Honda GX engine is probably the best designed engine for durability. Even the chinese made generators are using GX knock off's. I am not sure why Honda would not pursue them for copyright or whatever infringment. But, if you have one of those China made generators and need parts, look for a comparable GX engine for parts at the Honda dealer.
Patents eventually expire. A lot of what people consider to be Chinese knock offs are just expire design patents.
I use a Honda , aluminium decked self propelled mower , bought new about 22 years ago and apart from a regular maintainance , a control cable and 2 friction discs for the drive clutch the thing has run faultless , uses no oil and is very economical.
My Father had a Briggs & Strat engined , DIY store brand mower , it was a little crude but worked ok. Unfortunately one day he struck a curb edge with the blade and bent the crank. He asked me to have a look to see if it could be saved , so I stripped it and discovered the crank was beyond help. I phoned a Briggs stockist and discovered the price of a new crank was more than the whole mower had cost so it's fate was sealed !! However , I saw alot of things I didn't like inside that engine , like a plastic camshaft with plastic drive gears !!! Press cast con rod with a big end running direct on the crank pin without bearings !! Two words , built in obsolesence !!
My Father had a Briggs & Strat engined , DIY store brand mower , it was a little crude but worked ok. Unfortunately one day he struck a curb edge with the blade and bent the crank. He asked me to have a look to see if it could be saved , so I stripped it and discovered the crank was beyond help. I phoned a Briggs stockist and discovered the price of a new crank was more than the whole mower had cost so it's fate was sealed !! However , I saw alot of things I didn't like inside that engine , like a plastic camshaft with plastic drive gears !!! Press cast con rod with a big end running direct on the crank pin without bearings !! Two words , built in obsolesence !!
Originally Posted By: evoboy
. He asked me to have a look to see if it could be saved , so I stripped it and discovered the crank was beyond help. I phoned a Briggs stockist and discovered the price of a new crank was more than the whole mower had cost so it's fate was sealed !! However , I saw alot of things I didn't like inside that engine , like a plastic camshaft with plastic drive gears !!! Press cast con rod with a big end running direct on the crank pin without bearings !! Two words , built in obsolesence !!
That honestly does not surprise me one bit. The two B&S engines I owned were problematic from the very first start(had me cussin' they did)! I was very frustrated having gone through two mowers in two years, so I gave the pricier Honda powered MTD mower a try. That was seven years ago, and it still runs like day one (very well). I now have a premium Honda that will start every time on the first pull. That is a great product right there. I think most people feel Honda mowers are a bit over priced, but if you want quality and reliability then you should get a Honda mower.
. He asked me to have a look to see if it could be saved , so I stripped it and discovered the crank was beyond help. I phoned a Briggs stockist and discovered the price of a new crank was more than the whole mower had cost so it's fate was sealed !! However , I saw alot of things I didn't like inside that engine , like a plastic camshaft with plastic drive gears !!! Press cast con rod with a big end running direct on the crank pin without bearings !! Two words , built in obsolesence !!
That honestly does not surprise me one bit. The two B&S engines I owned were problematic from the very first start(had me cussin' they did)! I was very frustrated having gone through two mowers in two years, so I gave the pricier Honda powered MTD mower a try. That was seven years ago, and it still runs like day one (very well). I now have a premium Honda that will start every time on the first pull. That is a great product right there. I think most people feel Honda mowers are a bit over priced, but if you want quality and reliability then you should get a Honda mower.
Kohler also makes some fine engines. On those hard to start B&S fuel plays a role. Adding a fuel stabilizer and using premium higher octane gas also helps. Amsoil PI is also a very GOOD product for these small engines. I use 1-1.5 oz per 5 gallons, gives the fuel a boost.
Kohler are good as are Tecumseh in my experience. Have a lightweight hover mower with a Tecumseh 2 stroke for doing steep banks , that thing is 15 years old and shows no signs of quitting !! I do use a high quality SAE40 Motocross 2 stroke oil in it though.
I'd rather buy old Briggs and rebuild them. Their TCO is lower than Honda IMO.
Picked up a briggs solid cast-iron block, aluminum head 1.5hp. edger at a garage sale for $10. A new oil dipper from ebay, gaskets, muffler, sparkplug, and carb cleaner, a couple hours' labor...
Runs like the day it was built... fifty-five years ago.
I figure I saved at least $175.00 over those POS 2 cycle 'edgers' they sell now.
Edit - not that there's anything wrong with 2 cycle equipment - my ~30 year old American made Homelite Super XL Auto chainsaw is great - I'd just rather not support communism by buying those Chinese engines.
Picked up a briggs solid cast-iron block, aluminum head 1.5hp. edger at a garage sale for $10. A new oil dipper from ebay, gaskets, muffler, sparkplug, and carb cleaner, a couple hours' labor...
Runs like the day it was built... fifty-five years ago.
I figure I saved at least $175.00 over those POS 2 cycle 'edgers' they sell now.
Edit - not that there's anything wrong with 2 cycle equipment - my ~30 year old American made Homelite Super XL Auto chainsaw is great - I'd just rather not support communism by buying those Chinese engines.
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I would agree that old Briggs is better than recent Briggs , which probably isn't even made in the US. Then again , old stuff is generally better than new in any case !! I have an old Aerograph air compressor , must be at least 50 years old, that thing just refuses to wear or fail !! Now thats environmentally friendly !!
Originally Posted By: evoboy
I phoned a Briggs stockist and discovered the price of a new crank was more than the whole mower had cost so it's fate was sealed !! However , I saw alot of things I didn't like inside that engine , like a plastic camshaft with plastic drive gears !!! Press cast con rod with a big end running direct on the crank pin without bearings !! Two words , built in obsolescence !!
Aside from the plastic camshaft, those B&S engines have been made like that for years. Even when i was a kid in the 70's I would tear them apart and find exactly that--pressed con-rods and direct on the pin. I started to see cams with just a plastic (Nylon IIRC)drive gear but still had metal shaft and cams on some engines. similar to what GM was doing with their Nylon-geared Camshafts in the early 80's. Its a a disposable world nowadays, but if you look at it, aside from us at BITOG, most consumers will average a new mower every 5 years. So they design them to last just that long.
I phoned a Briggs stockist and discovered the price of a new crank was more than the whole mower had cost so it's fate was sealed !! However , I saw alot of things I didn't like inside that engine , like a plastic camshaft with plastic drive gears !!! Press cast con rod with a big end running direct on the crank pin without bearings !! Two words , built in obsolescence !!
Aside from the plastic camshaft, those B&S engines have been made like that for years. Even when i was a kid in the 70's I would tear them apart and find exactly that--pressed con-rods and direct on the pin. I started to see cams with just a plastic (Nylon IIRC)drive gear but still had metal shaft and cams on some engines. similar to what GM was doing with their Nylon-geared Camshafts in the early 80's. Its a a disposable world nowadays, but if you look at it, aside from us at BITOG, most consumers will average a new mower every 5 years. So they design them to last just that long.
Plastic camshaft or not, I see many B&S mowers that run so many years, the cables and chassis fall apart before the engine does.
Originally Posted By: evoboy
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
most consumers will average a new mower every 5 years. So they design them to last just that long.
As I said , built in obsolescence. Not good for the planet.
Dude, the fact you keep saying the same little buzz phrase over and over doesn't make what you say true. Show me B&S that fail like clockwork at 5 years of age, and I'll show you just as many that are a decade old.
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
most consumers will average a new mower every 5 years. So they design them to last just that long.
As I said , built in obsolescence. Not good for the planet.
Dude, the fact you keep saying the same little buzz phrase over and over doesn't make what you say true. Show me B&S that fail like clockwork at 5 years of age, and I'll show you just as many that are a decade old.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: evoboy
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
most consumers will average a new mower every 5 years. So they design them to last just that long.
As I said , built in obsolescence. Not good for the planet.
Dude, the fact you keep saying the same little buzz phrase over and over doesn't make what you say true. Show me B&S that fail like clockwork at 5 years of age, and I'll show you just as many that are a decade old.
In my opinoion B&S is c r a p now. I'll never own another peice of equipment that has one in it. Two poorly running motors in a row says alot to me about poor quality. Of course there may be some who feel that way about anything mass produced.
Originally Posted By: evoboy
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
most consumers will average a new mower every 5 years. So they design them to last just that long.
As I said , built in obsolescence. Not good for the planet.
Dude, the fact you keep saying the same little buzz phrase over and over doesn't make what you say true. Show me B&S that fail like clockwork at 5 years of age, and I'll show you just as many that are a decade old.
In my opinoion B&S is c r a p now. I'll never own another peice of equipment that has one in it. Two poorly running motors in a row says alot to me about poor quality. Of course there may be some who feel that way about anything mass produced.
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