ZRX1200 Redline 20w/50 5,004 miles

[Bonz]

Aluminum is holding steady. As had been shared in previous discussion in other analysis threads I've posted, folks say it's coming from the clutch, and I haven't done anything to the the clutch to this point. Silicon is up, not concerning to me (Dual foam uni-pod filters, cleaned and re-oiled after the sample was taken) however not what I expected with a SUS vis of 80.5 and cSt of 15.65 from this oil, or maybe it did well given what I share below.

The oil had a 2,300 mile round trip to Texas in the early summer of '22 in heat that would make the devil run for cooler climates. Then another 1,500 miles the rest of the summer of '22 in Colorado. Spent fall of '22 thru Dec of '23 in North Carolina, only rode 350 miles in that time. Bike/oil had about 1,000 more miles since the move back to Colorado in Dec of '23 until the sample was taken in early May of this year.

My thoughts on the "low" viscosity" are:

-The 105+ temps and high speeds ridden in Texas in '22, sheared down the oil as the bike ran without complaint on that trip despite the heat.
-The radiator got a good size leak in Amarillo on the return trip. I spent the rest of that day limping it home (350 miles to Colorado) after a good shot of stop leak and watching the temp gauge cycle up/down as I could not keep the radiator full otherwise it would puke out the "sealed" leak the stop leak helped to fill.
-Flashpoint is 400 deg F, down a bit from the previous samples, and this sample was taken after a 30 mile ride where the ambient temps were 50-60 deg f.
-The oil was not "burn me hot" as I have come to expect with past samples being taken while the oil is draining.

Anyway, this OCI saw all manner of different things. Could possibly not be representative, and another run with this oil would be a more fair assessment.

Read the report as RL 20/50 far left with arrow, (3) M1 10/40 4T marked with arrows and (1) M1 20/50 VTwin with an arrow in between two of the 10/40 4T's.

I only took a sample, this oil is still in the bike. I have all 3 oils on hand. Which one would you all choose for the next OCI?

Cheers.

 

[fantastic]

20w-50 of your choice. Since it's using it as Transmission fluid too? I think the viscosity is just fine on this run and your 10w-40's came in lower than that.

 

[Bonz]

Yes, the ZRX 1200 is a shared sump. Also have some 20w50 Amsoil on hand, haven't run that before. I am an oil hoarder I suppose, more than I'll ever use unless I start shortening the OCI's.

Hmm... that may be a thought for this run. 3,000 miles or the rest of this riding season (into September in Colorado) and send in a sample without changing of whichever oil I end up using. Wait for the report and see if any wear trends are reduced using the shorter OCI despite the previous oils still being good at 5,000 miles, per se.

 

[Overfill]

I would love to see you use a quart of V-Twin with the rest Mobil 1 0w-40. RDY4WAR has said that the 0w-40 is actually pretty shear proof in KRL testing, only dropping 6%, and the V-Twin is even less than that from your results.

 

[Bonz]

Interesting thought... is the KRL testing (what is that, where do I find it) in a shared sump with respect to the M1 0w40, and for how long of an OCI is that representative of?

The bike holds 3.3 qts with a filter change. That would theoretically give ~ 20w+0w+0w/3 for 6.3w on the low end and ~ 50w+40w+40w/3 for 43w on the high end. I know it's not exactly like that, but it gives a mental picture of what the oil could be. With that, M1 10w40 4T would be my choice (already on hand), as it has proven to be shear proof more or less and is basically the same weight as the frankenbrew assuming the frankenbrew rule I am going by is approximately correct, which I will probably be told it ain't, lol. Man, we put all kinds of thought into this stuff don't we?

 

[Jetronic]

Lower flashpoint points to fuel dilution. Blackstone fuel dilution figures are notoriously low. There's nothing else that lowers the flashpoint. It also explains the lower viscosity. I doubt the 20W50 contains much if any Viscosity Index Improvers, so can't shear down if that's the case. You used the car engine version of 20W-50 and not the HD V-twin 20W-50 from redline? The motorcycle version has less Moly and more ZDDP. That actually might work better with a wet clutch

Red Line uses more silicone oil as anti-foam agent than you typically see.

 

[Bonz]

No, this not the car version of Red Line 20w50. This is the Power sports 20w50 and from before they lowered moly to 130 ppm. Fwiw, Blackstone zinc analysis has been low vs what the manufacturers spec almost every time, so it doesn't surprise me on the lower zinc.

Thx for the heads up in silicon, would explain the higher number.

 

[sunruh]

if you thought '22 was hot then you really missed the hot days of '23. dozens of days at 105+ but the 112s were insane

why has copper doubled from 5 to 10 in the last 3 samples?
holy zinc batman!!!

gotta love me some stoner manganese ... what no silver...sad

yes it would seem that the lower flash of 400 would point to more fuel but 80.5 is not that far below 83.3

if you want to see a susvis really out of grade go run that 0w40 ... i'll get me a 20pk box of popcorn bags
it will be worse than any 5w40 and those drop out of grade crazy fast

 

[Overfill]

Paging @RDY4WAR

 

[Bonz]

On the copper, I don't have an answer. Bearings also have lead, correct? Lead is basically at a nothing level in all the the analysis's on the bike. Wouldn't there be a correlation if there was extra wear occurring? I have heard Redline "leeches" out copper from bearings or something to that effect with the high zinc. Not harmful as far as I remember what I read.

No 0w40/20w50 frankenbrew going into this bike. Changed it today after a good ride, went with Amsoil 20w50 Metric. I am an oil whore and hoarder, must keep trying oils to satisfy the curiosity of the almighty analysis.

 

[sunruh]

the answer is a firm ... probably not - on the lead ... our bikes have ball roller bearings. not babbit layered like car motors.
there really isnt any lead inside to lose and therefore isnt on a report (unless you use a leaded fuel...i have and it shows up! ive hit over 200lead using VP C12)

there are only certain places the copper can come from ... brass (copper/zinc) or bronze (copper/tin) or straight up just copper.
ive never seen nor heard of any brass in a motor. bronze is very present in thrust bearings and bushings (on my motor there are bronze bushing sleeves in the clutch basket hole). also can be found in the oil cooler. many possibilities but where it really is coming from depends on your exact motor components.

 

[fantastic]

On the copper, I don't have an answer. Bearings also have lead, correct? Lead is basically at a nothing level in all the the analysis's on the bike. Wouldn't there be a correlation if there was extra wear occurring? I have heard Redline "leeches" out copper from bearings or something to that effect with the high zinc. Not harmful as far as I remember what I read.

No 0w40/20w50 frankenbrew going into this bike. Changed it today after a good ride, went with Amsoil 20w50 Metric. I am an oil whore and hoarder, must keep trying oils to satisfy the curiosity of the almighty analysis.

Sulfur in oils tend to cause oxidation on Copper & Lead material. Lead/tin babbit or other babbit outer layer is supposed to be a protective barrier to the copper/lead but it wears down over time. Lead has been transitioning away from engines for around 15 years now. Not sure what year your bike is but it shows lead so I'd assume there's some in your bearings. I know the motor industry has transitioned towards Aluminum bearing material to replace Lead.

 

[Bonz]

Yes, 2001 ZRX 1200 so "old school" bearings. Am I on the right track saying the copper may not be from bearings, since the lead is layered/combined in the outer layer? With that said, there is no oil cooler and not aware of what else in the engine uses copper as part of it besides bearings.

 

[fantastic]

Yes, 2001 ZRX 1200 so "old school" bearings. Am I on the right track saying the copper may not be from bearings, since the lead is layered/combined in the outer layer? With that said, there is no oil cooler and not aware of what else in the engine uses copper as part of it besides bearings.

Might have copper in the push rod bushings.

 

[Bonz]

Might have copper in the push rod bushings.

... Dual overhead cams, 16 valves... cams run in line bored machined saddles in the aluminum head.

 

[fantastic]

... Dual overhead cams, 16 valves... cams run in line bored machined saddles in the aluminum head.

Good to know. Hope you find your Cu source.