Zimmerman Trial Thread Locked

[Philth]

Originally Posted By: Win
I've taken the time to watch or listen to probably 90% of the testimony.

I've practiced over twenty five years now.

Unless the 10% or so I've missed was devastating to the defense, this is the weakest murder case I've ever seen. It is an abuse of prosecutorial discretion to have brought it, imo.

Off the top of my head, all of the physical evidence corroborates the defendants version of events and only one of the eye witnesses (again IIRC) failed to corroborate the defendant's version of the events.

If I were the judge, I would have acquitted the defendant at the close of the prosecutions case. The presiding judge should have done just that, but is clearly biased against the defense, as most judges are.

All that said, juries are very unpredictable. The defendant should be acquitted, but anything is possible.

It's a shame EKPolk no longer posts; it would be interesting to get his perspective on this case.


What are the rules/procedures for a judge blatantly disregarding law? Anything?

 

[Falken]

Yes, anything that sticks.

The trial was a dichotomy.

But, it stands that Zimmerman was beaten up with a broken nose in a very short amount of time and TM had no wounds on him whatsoever aside from the fatal shot.

We have to ask ourselves this in the court of public opinion:

Had GZ not shot TM, would TM have continued to beat GZ until he died? It is a very serious thing when someone is having their head slammed into the ground when they can't defend themselves.

When you are underneath someone who has a full mount on you, if you aren't an experienced MMA fighter, you are a goner.

I reasonably believe TM may not have stopped slamming GZs head into the ground until he was dead.

And the dichotomy is this: TM would have walked EQUALLY as GZ for the SAME reasons had GZ not shot him first.

Only, what is maddeningly unfair is the Race Card that is being played. Some people are guilty until proven innocent, and people who play the race card are innocent until proven guilty.

O.J. Simpson was never attacked by angry white mobs, nor were there any "Race Riots". He was let off the hook under the presumption that the trial delivered justice even though people felt it hadn't, but he was given his freedom.

GZ still has the court of the Race Card to deal with, and he was long convicted.

And he isn't even White. How powerful is that.

Maybe I will watch White Man's Burden again and see if it is becoming more relevant in today's society...

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: Falken
The Prosecution (American Government) is desperate to appease the race card that was played in this case.

The rioting if he walks scott free will cost individuals, insurance, and the government hundreds of millions of dollars to repair.
Also, many more lives will be lost in the process of the rioting.
O.J. Simpson had less than 1% reasonable doubt for killing his wife and Goldman, and he walked easy as pie. And look where he is today.

GZ needs 99% reasonable doubt to survive street justice over the next decade, if they don't kill him in the first year of his release.

What is the core issue that is trumped by the race card is GZ isn't guilty of murder, but he is guilty of bad judgement.

Zimmerman's poor judgement isn't on trial, his motives are, and this is why he will walk.

But he will never see freedom for the rest of his life, and for this he will only have himself to blame.

Both these guys should have called the police and went straight home when they had the chance.
I agree except that I highly doubt he will walk. I don't think that a riot will happen either. The Rodney King verdict was blatant racism, so people were upset about it...even though the riot idiots destroyed their own community.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Falken
This SHOULD be a lesson to everyone, be careful in life, be considerate, and handle things and conduct yourself as a gentleman ALWAYS.

There is a price to be paid for our actions, no matter how small.


Indeed. Regardless of whether he was just making an honest mistake or got away from poking the hornet's nest, he will pay for his consequence outside and will never have a normal life.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: Falken
Yes, anything that sticks.

The trial was a dichotomy.

But, it stands that Zimmerman was beaten up with a broken nose in a very short amount of time and TM had no wounds on him whatsoever aside from the fatal shot.

We have to ask ourselves this in the court of public opinion:

Had GZ not shot TM, would TM have continued to beat GZ until he died? It is a very serious thing when someone is having their head slammed into the ground when they can't defend themselves.

When you are underneath someone who has a full mount on you, if you aren't an experienced MMA fighter, you are a goner.

I reasonably believe TM may not have stopped slamming GZs head into the ground until he was dead.
And the dichotomy is this: TM would have walked EQUALLY as GZ for the SAME reasons had GZ not shot him first.

Only, what is maddeningly unfair is the Race Card that is being played. Some people are guilty until proven innocent, and people who play the race card are innocent until proven guilty.

O.J. Simpson was never attacked by angry white mobs, nor were there any "Race Riots". He was let off the hook under the presumption that the trial delivered justice even though people felt it hadn't, but he was given his freedom.

GZ still has the court of the Race Card to deal with, and he was long convicted.

And he isn't even White. How powerful is that.

Maybe I will watch White Man's Burden again and see if it is becoming more relevant in today's society...
Baloney! Just because someone is on top of you, you don't have to be a experience MMA fighter to excape the situation. Very silly statement. People have been having fist fights for centuries, before MMA came along...and people were not "goners". You have two arm and body leverage that you can use to get him off of you. You are not a lame duck just because someone is on top of you. The defense expert stated yesterday that injuries to his head were not consistent with his head being "smashed" on the cement. Btw, his head should've been slammed into the cement, along with being punched multiple times IMO. If someone is following me, at night, in the rain, the person didn't identify who they were, and approached me, we are not going to sit and drink tea and eat cookies. How can you be worried about your own life when ZIMMERMAN put himself in that situation???? You stalked someone, then quickly realized that Trayvon was too much to handle once he was fighting for his life while screaming for help. Yes he punch Zimmerman and I'm sure Zimmerman was fighting back (they why they were rolling around in the grass), Trayvon got on top and that's when Zimmerman shot him. It still amaze me why people cannot understand why Trayvon was fight this unknown person from his point of view. Trayvon had every right to stand his ground and fight!

Do I think Zimmerman is a racist? No, he just made another bad judgment call with his thug attitude (same as when he assaulted a cop and beat up on his girlfriend). He will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Falken
This SHOULD be a lesson to everyone, be careful in life, be considerate, and handle things and conduct yourself as a gentleman ALWAYS.

There is a price to be paid for our actions, no matter how small.


Indeed. Regardless of whether he was just making an honest mistake or got away from poking the hornet's nest, he will pay for his consequence outside and will never have a normal life.
true, very true

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
If the marsupial judge looking for prompotion in this case felt the NEED to question Zimmerman on whether or not he would take the stand (over and over, BTW) she SHOULD have done it after sending the JURY OUT. Grounds for appeal +1.


I agree big time. I was dumfounded when she did that. Definite grounds for appeal if he is found guilty. Just absurd. Zimmerman's lawyers should file a complaint against the judge with the bar.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

The evidence quite strongly supports a manslaughter conviction because Zman's series of irresponsible choices and behaviors did in fact unnecessarily create the circumstances that caused the avoidable death of another person. That is manslaughter and the government, city, town, village, jury has a duty to hold irresponsible people accountable for the negative consequences their behaviors cause. The situation is really that simple. I could not care less about anyone's race or ethnicity. Zman behaved irresponsibly. His irresponsibility unnecessarily and avoidable caused the death of another person. He should be held accountable. That is justice and morally correct - period.

Also, enough with the head bashed into the sidewalk stuff. Martin was laying face down in the grass, arms under his chest, FAR AWAY from the sidewalk. I guess he stood up and walked over there after being shot in the chest. If he fell where he was shot, how was he bashing Zimmerman's head into concrete that was not there? Zimmerman clearly said that he shot him then immediately "spread his arms wide" to make sure he didn't have any weapons (what a wanna be thug cop would do)...which we found was lie based on photos of Trayvon with his arms under him.

 

[Nick R]

I believe at the very least that this should be manslaughter. Personally? I believe he is a disgusting pig and should be locked up for the rest of his life. Worst part is he doesn't display any remorse or regret for killing.

Whatever his "reasoning" he clearly aggravated the situation, by following Martin. Also even IF it was self defense, which I doubt, he countered non lethal force with a gun- and with intent to kill. To me, that is inexcusable use of lethal force on a minor. Especially when you INSTIGATED it.

I think Zimmerman went after Martin wanting there to be a confrontation, he WANTED an opportunity to shoot him. He was looking for trouble as a wannabe cop.

He can rot in [censored].


I also feel that a lot of people desperately want Zimmerman to be acquitted because they feel that their rights to carry weapons are going to be even further threatened if he is found guilty. Which while possibly a valid fear, shouldn't detract from the fact that he shot and killed Martin whoes only methods of self defense were his own fists.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Mr. Z has been railroaded from day one.

It begins to look like the rule of law, of having a government of laws and not of men, is over in America. Nice country we had here while it lasted.

 

[Philth]

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
The Rodney King verdict was blatant racism, so people were upset about it...even though the riot idiots destroyed their own community.


And you think that they aren't going to be saying this if he walks? Sure thing. The only "justice" that they will accept is a conviction. If he walks, it's not justice in their eyes.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Also, enough with the head bashed into the sidewalk stuff. Martin was laying face down in the grass, arms under his chest, FAR AWAY from the sidewalk. I guess he stood up and walked over there after being shot in the chest. If he fell where he was shot, how was he bashing Zimmerman's head into concrete that was not there? Zimmerman clearly said that he shot him then immediately "spread his arms wide" to make sure he didn't have any weapons (what a wanna be thug cop would do)...which we found was lie based on photos of Trayvon with his arms under him.


Most bullet wounds are not immediately fatal. Being shot in the torso doesn't mean immediate loss of mobility.

 

[97tbird]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
I believe at the very least that this should be manslaughter. Personally? I believe he is a disgusting pig and should be locked up for the rest of his life. Worst part is he doesn't display any remorse or regret for killing.

Whatever his "reasoning" he clearly aggravated the situation, by following Martin. Also even IF it was self defense, which I doubt, he countered non lethal force with a gun- and with intent to kill. To me, that is inexcusable use of lethal force on a minor. Especially when you INSTIGATED it.

I think Zimmerman went after Martin wanting there to be a confrontation, he WANTED an opportunity to shoot him. He was looking for trouble as a wannabe cop.

He can rot in [censored].


I also feel that a lot of people desperately want Zimmerman to be acquitted because they feel that their rights to carry weapons are going to be even further threatened if he is found guilty. Which while possibly a valid fear, shouldn't detract from the fact that he shot and killed Martin whoes only methods of self defense were his own fists.


+1 This.
I am amazed why 90% here don't see this.
But then again, this BITOG - one should not be surprised of the views where guns are involved.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Just to correct a couple of things:

Trayvon -- I'll call him TM from now on -- was not a "kid." Dishonestly, the media have tried to make it look like he was, by continually running pics of him at age 12. He was 17, and larger and stronger than Mr. Z.

Mr. Z did indeed follow the dispatcher's directions not to follow TM. He was walking back to his truck when TM came after him and jumped him.

But in any case, as we've seen in this thread, there was no evidence to charge him in the first place; the cops declined and so did the original prosecutor. It was only when the case became racially and politically charged that a new prosecutor was brought in and Mr. Z went up on these charges.

Not to mention that the prosecutors have tried -- now that the evidence is clearly running against them -- to insert a new charge, one, I understand, of "child abuse." (??!!??) So nowadays in America, if the State doesn't get the verdict it wants, it'll charge you with something else, and then something else if that doesn't stick, until you're convicted of *something.*

That's why I say that the rule of law is apparently a thing of the past in America.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Originally Posted By: Nick R
I believe at the very least that this should be manslaughter. Personally? I believe he is a disgusting pig and should be locked up for the rest of his life. Worst part is he doesn't display any remorse or regret for killing.

Whatever his "reasoning" he clearly aggravated the situation, by following Martin. Also even IF it was self defense, which I doubt, he countered non lethal force with a gun- and with intent to kill. To me, that is inexcusable use of lethal force on a minor. Especially when you INSTIGATED it.

I think Zimmerman went after Martin wanting there to be a confrontation, he WANTED an opportunity to shoot him. He was looking for trouble as a wannabe cop.

He can rot in [censored].


I also feel that a lot of people desperately want Zimmerman to be acquitted because they feel that their rights to carry weapons are going to be even further threatened if he is found guilty. Which while possibly a valid fear, shouldn't detract from the fact that he shot and killed Martin whoes only methods of self defense were his own fists.


+1 This.
I am amazed why 90% here don't see this.
But then again, this BITOG - one should not be surprised of the views where guns are involved.


+2 - I wouldn't go so far as to say Zimmerman wanted an opportunity to shoot Martin, but I do think he attempted to detain Martin - this is clear by his comments about "these punks always get away". Zimmerman set this whole chain of events into motion, and a minor ended up dead. I can't believe he wasn't charged from the beginning. That Sanford PD is beyond incompetent.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
Just to correct a couple of things:

Trayvon -- I'll call him TM from now on -- was not a "kid." Dishonestly, the media have tried to make it look like he was, by continually running pics of him at age 12. He was 17, and larger and stronger than Mr. Z.

Mr. Z did indeed follow the dispatcher's directions not to follow TM. He was walking back to his truck when TM came after him and jumped him.

But in any case, as we've seen in this thread, there was no evidence to charge him in the first place; the cops declined and so did the original prosecutor. It was only when the case became racially and politically charged that a new prosecutor was brought in and Mr. Z went up on these charges.

Not to mention that the prosecutors have tried -- now that the evidence is clearly running against them -- to insert a new charge, one, I understand, of "child abuse." (??!!??) So nowadays in America, if the State doesn't get the verdict it wants, it'll charge you with something else, and then something else if that doesn't stick, until you're convicted of *something.*

That's why I say that the rule of law is apparently a thing of the past in America.


He was barely old enough to drive, and in High School. Not old enough to vote, not old enough to go into a bar. That's a kid in my book - and he didn't even weigh 160 lbs.

You have no idea what Zimmerman did. He has every incentive to lie about not approaching Martin and returning to his car.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
Just to correct a couple of things:

Trayvon -- I'll call him TM from now on -- was not a "kid." Dishonestly, the media have tried to make it look like he was, by continually running pics of him at age 12. He was 17, and larger and stronger than Mr. Z.

Mr. Z did indeed follow the dispatcher's directions not to follow TM. He was walking back to his truck when TM came after him and jumped him.

But in any case, as we've seen in this thread, there was no evidence to charge him in the first place; the cops declined and so did the original prosecutor. It was only when the case became racially and politically charged that a new prosecutor was brought in and Mr. Z went up on these charges.

Not to mention that the prosecutors have tried -- now that the evidence is clearly running against them -- to insert a new charge, one, I understand, of "child abuse." (??!!??) So nowadays in America, if the State doesn't get the verdict it wants, it'll charge you with something else, and then something else if that doesn't stick, until you're convicted of *something.*

That's why I say that the rule of law is apparently a thing of the past in America.



So he shot TM, and should be allowed to get away scot free without accountability for his actions? Without any investigation of whether or not it was lawful? So I could go shoot anybody I want, claim it was self defense and get away with it?

Come on now. HE SHOT HIM. He ADMITTED to it. Anytime someone is KILLED I think there should be a thorough investigation of the incident.

Also where is the evidence he was walking back to his truck? I haven't watched the full trial but I don't recall ever seeing/hearing that. I will admit that I am wrong if this is the case- but I don't recall seeing it anywhere.

You sound pretty biased against Mr Martin anyway, race notwithstanding.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Originally Posted By: Nick R
I believe at the very least that this should be manslaughter. Personally? I believe he is a disgusting pig and should be locked up for the rest of his life. Worst part is he doesn't display any remorse or regret for killing.

Whatever his "reasoning" he clearly aggravated the situation, by following Martin. Also even IF it was self defense, which I doubt, he countered non lethal force with a gun- and with intent to kill. To me, that is inexcusable use of lethal force on a minor. Especially when you INSTIGATED it.

I think Zimmerman went after Martin wanting there to be a confrontation, he WANTED an opportunity to shoot him. He was looking for trouble as a wannabe cop.

He can rot in [censored].


I also feel that a lot of people desperately want Zimmerman to be acquitted because they feel that their rights to carry weapons are going to be even further threatened if he is found guilty. Which while possibly a valid fear, shouldn't detract from the fact that he shot and killed Martin whoes only methods of self defense were his own fists.


+1 This.
I am amazed why 90% here don't see this.
But then again, this BITOG - one should not be surprised of the views where guns are involved.


+2 - I wouldn't go so far as to say Zimmerman wanted an opportunity to shoot Martin, but I do think he attempted to detain Martin - this is clear by his comments about "these punks always get away". Zimmerman set this whole chain of events into motion, and a minor ended up dead. I can't believe he wasn't charged from the beginning. That Sanford PD is beyond incompetent.


+4

I also feel that murder#1 charges were deliberately put to make sure he walks. No rational person would have charged that scum with this charge. They should have charged with manslaughter *and* should have investigated *immediately* which the police just did not. I mean how often a shooter gets to walk without even talking with a homicide detective? This just would not happen in most towns.

 

[97tbird]

Originally Posted By: Nick R

So he shot TM, and should be allowed to get away scot free without accountability for his actions? Without any investigation of whether or not it was lawful? So I could go shoot anybody I want, claim it was self defense and get away with it?

Come on now. HE SHOT HIM. He ADMITTED to it. Anytime someone is KILLED I think there should be a thorough investigation of the incident.

Also where is the evidence he was walking back to his truck? I haven't watched the full trial but I don't recall ever seeing/hearing that. I will admit that I am wrong if this is the case- but I don't recall seeing it anywhere.

You sound pretty biased against Mr Martin anyway, race notwithstanding.


Well said!

 

[Vikas]

By the way, I am glad I got my two cents before the lock which I know is coming