ZDDP, Amsoil, and new-cam

[AH64ID]

I am installing a new cam into my 2005 Cummins. The Cam mfgr wants me to add ZDDP to the oil for the initial break-in. I run Amsoil AME. I called Amsoil to verify that the ZDDPlus wouldn't effect the oil, and since they haven't tested it they cannot officially comment, thou unofficially they don't think it will be an issue.

I have heard that a Zinc ppm of at least 1000 is needed for a cam break-in. Per my last UOA (600 miles ago) I am at 975, so I need to do something.

Option 1: Add 12oz of ZDDPlus to the oil, this will yield me approx 2900ppm.. good for break in... I would change the oil pretty quick after install.

Option 2: Change the oil to something else and add 12oz of ZDDP.. For a min of 2000ppm zinc.

Option 3:???

I have 56K on the motor and have been toying with doing an engine flush to try to clean out any soot (lots on these Cummins 600 motors). I could do the flush, change to a off the shelf dino oil, then add the ZDDP. Run for a few hundred miles then get back to my Amsoil AME.

What do y'all think?

TIA.

 

[demarpaint]

I think I would go with a quality off the shelf oil spec'd for your engine, add the ZDDP additive to that oil. Run it for a short OCI then make a decision as to which oil you want to run after.

 

[DieselTech]

I'd break it in for 20 minutes on rotella and 2 bottles of redline breakin additive. Drive for a couple hundred miles the drain and fill with your choice oil.

Can break in is done at 2k rpm for 10-20 minutes. I always do 20. On engine we rebuild we always leave the additive in for a few hundred miles. I suggest you do the same with just a new Cam.

Nows a good time to upgrade those valve springs also.

 

[RWEST]

Quote:
I have 56K on the motor

And it needs a new cam? What happened?

 

[AH64ID]

Nothing happened. Just upgrading to a more performance/economy grind than an emissions grind. Valves springs are fine at 55K miles, but I am doing to tappets.

Still thinking between Valvoline Premium Blue and what I have.. .

 

[m37charlie]

Add 12 oz of ZDDPlus to the oil? That's way way to much. that stuff is 51500ppm P, 71000ppm Zn. It come in 4 oz bottles. If your pan holds 15qt, and accounting for the higher density of ZDDPlus (0.99 instead of 0.86), 4 oz will increase P~480ppm, Zn~640ppm.
Remember, your oil is already~1000ppm. So the end product with 4 oz will be in the range of 1500ppm - just right IMHO.
Too much ZDDP can cause damage (no flaming please, reference available).
If you have a big Cummins and your pan holds 45 qt, then 3 bottles is OK. You will get a Zn/P increase with 45 qts and 3 bottles 640/480.

Charlie

 

[AH64ID]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Add 12 oz of ZDDPlus to the oil? That's way way to much. that stuff is 51500ppm P, 71000ppm Zn. It come in 4 oz bottles. If your pan holds 15qt, and accounting for the higher density of ZDDPlus (0.99 instead of 0.86), 4 oz will increase P~480ppm, Zn~640ppm.
Remember, your oil is already~1000ppm. So the end product with 4 oz will be in the range of 1500ppm - just right IMHO.
Too much ZDDP can cause damage (no flaming please, reference available).

Charlie


That's why I am asking... Their instructions say 4oz per 5qts..

 

[D-Roc]

I purchased some ZDDP plus a while back, and looking on their site, I decided that IF I ever used it, I would add 1/2 bottle per oil change (13 quarts w/ Amsoil bypass) My recent uoa's with AME have come back close to 1000ppm lately too, which is odd. Should be higher... AME is usually approx 1400 Zinc and 1200 P so weird. But that is normal operation, no cam swap.
If you're running AME, I don't think you should need a flush, but hats off if it's your choice. I know you like things exceptionally clean, you're the filter guy afterall

Me? I like Dieseltech's option with the Rotella. I would add 1 bottle of ZDDP plus to Rotella 15W40 as well...
Which manufacturer did you go with? New or regrind?

 

[AH64ID]

I went with a Colt Stage 1, regrind.

Still undecided... The oil has 23K on it, and is in good enough shape to go to 30K, so a bottle of ZDDP should be plenty... Its probably what i'll do?

 

[DieselTech]

What cam are you using? I would deffinetly do springs no question about it. You obviously fueling and adding timing aswell.

Hamilton has some nice springs and they arnt to expensive and of course Haisleys but he's a little more

 

[AH64ID]

Colt Stage 1, same as Hamilton 176/206, or PDR Stage 1.

No springs necessary, stock fueling, 35psi boost, and only mild timing. I would be going to 110# springs if I were really going for more power, but thats just not the case with my truck.

Talked with the guy installing the cam.. 2 bottles of ZDDP into the current oil it is.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: AH64ID
Colt Stage 1, same as Hamilton 176/206, or PDR Stage 1.

No springs necessary, stock fueling, 35psi boost, and only mild timing. I would be going to 110# springs if I were really going for more power, but thats just not the case with my truck.

Talked with the guy installing the cam.. 2 bottles of ZDDP into the current oil it is.


Dude, you're not going to install yourself? C'mon, it's ONLY a 12 hour job (by an experienced installer)...get some wooden dowls and elastics and you're in...

I know I sure wouldn't be doing it myself....:!

 

[AH64ID]

I would like to, but I am missing some of the required tool, and all of the required time

 

[D-Roc]

Well, keep us informed on how it goes...I for one, am definitely interested!

 

[xxch4osxx]

Which Cummins is this? ISX 600?

 

[D-Roc]

5.9 ISB in a Dodge, 610 series IIRC.

 

[DieselTech]

If you dont mind me asking why did you decide to go this route for a power increase?

Backyard guy will take 12 hours if he has the tools and good ability.

I don't know what it is, but we have been swamped with injectors. All have been in 600's also. 4 sets in 2 weeks. Industrial Inj gotta be loving us right now between these cummins sticks and garbage 6leaker sticks.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: D-Roc
5.9 ISB in a Dodge, 610 series IIRC.
Ah ok, I thought he was talking about a big truck motor when he said "these 600's" and I thought he was meaning 600HP, lol

 

[AH64ID]

Originally Posted By: DieselTech
If you dont mind me asking why did you decide to go this route for a power increase?


The cam actually provides very little overall power increase. The main benefits are lower tq curve, quicker spooling turbo, cooler EGT's, improved mileage, and cleaner oil.

Goes in monday!