Your Opinions Please! 5w20 Short Trip Oil?

[messiah4linux]

I have a 1998 Ford Explorer with 123,000 miles. It sees short city beat trips every day.

1.5 miles from home to work. Speed limit is 40mph max on most streets. I don't have to go far for most anything. Nor do I drive hard. Wally world is 3 miles, the grocery is 2 mi, the mall is 4mi, movies is 2 mi. The hardest part may be idling for about 10-15 minuites in the school parking lot waiting for my daughter, though I do try to time it right so I don't have to wait long.

It has been months since I took it fo more than a 15 mile run down a freeway.

I decided from what I have read on this site that 5w20 would be my prefered choice for this application. So I picked up some Motorcraft oil and a MC filter and changed it out myself as I always have done.

I will stick to a 2-3 month oil/filter change schedule as oil is rather cheap and not worry about mileage as it will probably never see over 1500 mi during this time, nor has it seen since last summer.

I don't believe nor expect to see any noticeable benefits and will not do any UOA just to be sure. Just going by what I read here on the board vs the type of driving conditions I do.

JamesB

 

[Ken4]

A 20wt is perfect for short trips. In fact I consider anything below 30mins of driving, a short trip, bcos it takes that long to fully warm up the oil. Monitor closely whether you have any oil burning issues with your '98 Ford Explorer 123k miles with the 20wt. If you do, you may have to use something thicker.

 

[messiah4linux]

Thanks,

I do indeed check the oil at most fuel fill ups. I forgot to mention that this is a 4.0 V6.

I did not have any comsumption issues with dino a10W30. I did try Rotella 5w40 last summer and saw about a quart loss at every 1500 miles .I switched back to 10W30 and problem went away. My guess is that it was slipping past the rings. I could not find any oil leak anywhere.

I had this same oil consumption issue with a car many years ago when trying Castrol Syntec 5w50. I tried it twice under it would drink a quart every 1000 miles. I would switch to the dino Castrol GTX 5w30 and oil consumption would go about 4000 miles and lose a half quart.

I prefer dino or semi-dino due to cost since I prefer to change out rather often. Many years ago, I used to do the Mobil 1 and go many miles and several months between OC. However the oil smell like gasoline after draining it. I threw a match in the pan and it flashed and burned. A relative was tried the same thing doing the long oil changes and it too caught fire. Not sure if anyone else has tried this.

JB

 

[pbm]

James: I'm not sure but I thought the 4.0 V6 was one of the Ford engines that didn't recommend 5w20.

 

[messiah4linux]

pbm,

You are are correct. 5w20 is not recommended. Only 5w30 is recommended.

I chose 5w20 for the usage that this vehicle sees. If I go back to long trips it will definitely get 5w30.

This vehicle sees about 5 minutes of use for each short trip which is about 4 per day. Oil does not get up to operating temp.

JB

 

[AEHaas]

I think you made the right choice, based on your usage.

aehaas

 

[Patman]

I've always felt that 5w20 or 0w20 oils were perfect for very short trip vehicles. With the oil in short trip vehicles not getting up to temperature as often, you want an oil which has a nice low viscosity at 40c, and the 0w20/5w20 oils win in this category.

 

[haley10]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pbm:
James: I'm not sure but I thought the 4.0 V6 was one of the Ford engines that didn't recommend 5w20.

---

Correct. Not recommended. Some engine re-builders say that they see a lot of pushrod and lifter wear even in lower mileage engines. One theory is that the lifter material is a bit soft and while there is pressure to lube them, there is not adequate flow to the push rods due to design.

I can't really comment on 5W-20, but some wear will occur, because the design is not perfection. Maybe more film strength and correct additive pak might be more important than an absolute xW-## for this engine.

Forgive me if I don't see the benefit of a 5W-20 in a big push rod V-6 in Ft. Worth's climate.

[ May 16, 2005, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: haley10 ]

 

[Schmoe]

No way in #ell I'd use a 5W-20 on a pushrod V6.

 

[Gary Allan]

I use it in my duaghter's 3.0 Vulcan ..and my 3.0 Mitsu.

It doesn't matter what the label says if you never reach its spec'd temp. My 15w-40 @ 160 is probably a 60 weight. My 5w-20 a 30 weight. If you aren't afraid to use a 30 weight @ 200F ..you have no rational fear of using a 20 weight @ 160. No matter how you index the terminal warm up oil temp, if you never reach it, it's a moot point in terms of "acceptable" label viscosity designations.

This engine, in this application, should see no difference in viscosity related wear influences over anyone using a 30 weight where the typical service includes events of longer duration. The #1 issue that this engine will see will be wear due to ill fitting parts for 100% of its usage. Always being in the highest state of wear during warm up (indexed for its basline ambient starting point).

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by haley10:


Forgive me if I don't see the benefit of a 5W-20 in a big push rod V-6 in Ft. Worth's climate.

---

I agree as well. Everyone is forgetting the whole Ft. Worth location here. You may drive short trips, but say this summer you decide to go on a weekend cruise to Houston (yea, very hypothetical, but in todays world, it could happen

). I've seen something posted here as well from Ford where they were adument about customers not using 5w-20 in like 3 or 4 specific applications like yours. I garuntee your oil comes to temp fairly darn fast when the temperature outside is 95. One good trip across town with a romp onto an inerstate will get it up.

I really would recomend 5w-20 if I thought the application warrented it (wait, no I wouldn't

). 10w-30 gets my vote for sure, but since you insist on ALL short trips, 5w-30 would be okay I guess (I'm kicking and screaming saying that).

 

[labman]

I tend to stick close to the owner's manual. If it says 5W-30 I would use it, or maybe factoring in Fort worth, 10W-30. Less VII never hurts. I also would stick to dino and dump it frequently. So are the drug stores going to have a run of greasy handed guys buying buying eye brow pencils after trying your flash in the pan?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by haley10:

quote:

---

Originally posted by pbm:
James: I'm not sure but I thought the 4.0 V6 was one of the Ford engines that didn't recommend 5w20.

---

Correct. Not recommended. Some engine re-builders say that they see a lot of pushrod and lifter wear even in lower mileage engines. One theory is that the lifter material is a bit soft and while there is pressure to lube them, there is not adequate flow to the push rods due to design.

I can't really comment on 5W-20, but some wear will occur, because the design is not perfection. Maybe more film strength and correct additive pak might be more important than an absolute xW-## for this engine.

Forgive me if I don't see the benefit of a 5W-20 in a big push rod V-6 in Ft. Worth's climate.

---

Uh...I'm pretty sure the 4.0 V6 in the Explorer is a SOHC engine. No pushrods.

 

[TomJones76]

With trips that short in that climate, Supertech 10W30 changed every 3,000 miles.
You have one of those applications that calls for short intervals.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

I agree as well. Everyone is forgetting the whole Ft. Worth location here. You may drive short trips, but say this summer you decide to go on a weekend cruise to Houston (yea, very hypothetical, but in todays world, it could happen

---

This sorta assumes that an engine will spontaniously grenade with its use. The simple fact is that a 5w-30 could easily shear or get reduced to a 20 weight over the duration of the OCI ..yet no one would think twice about taking a trip to Houston in 95F weather.

It also ignores that the mass wear on this engine is not going to be prevented or accellerated by that minor viscosity difference that 5w-20 and 5w-30 represent. They aren't that much different. In fact ..I don't see too much except time that's going to make the wear factor a non issue. This will be a 5 year old 15k vehicle (pull out of thin air) and the only long term hope for it is if the the owner gets bored with it soon enough in the life cycle that the high rate of wear hasn't accumulated to a substantial amount simply due to duration of the high rate events.

 

[bighead]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

---

Originally posted by haley10:

quote:

---

Originally posted by pbm:
James: I'm not sure but I thought the 4.0 V6 was one of the Ford engines that didn't recommend 5w20.

---

Correct. Not recommended. Some engine re-builders say that they see a lot of pushrod and lifter wear even in lower mileage engines. One theory is that the lifter material is a bit soft and while there is pressure to lube them, there is not adequate flow to the push rods due to design.

I can't really comment on 5W-20, but some wear will occur, because the design is not perfection. Maybe more film strength and correct additive pak might be more important than an absolute xW-## for this engine.

Forgive me if I don't see the benefit of a 5W-20 in a big push rod V-6 in Ft. Worth's climate.

---

Uh...I'm pretty sure the 4.0 V6 in the Explorer is a SOHC engine. No pushrods.

---

There were 2 versions of the 4.0 V6. One was a weak pushrod OHV and one a beefier SOHC with more HP and torque, his being a 98 year model could have either one. Newer models have only the SOHC or the V8, they 86'd the pushrod motor a few years ago IIRC.

 

[Steve S]

Pushrod engines have way higher valve spring pressure compared to over head cam setups.

 

[Razl]

My father in-law's Maxima sees the same usage. I want to tell him to switch to XW-20 so badly but I know he uses quick lubes so they probably don't carry anything lighter than a 5W-30.

Based on your usage, the viscocity of the 5W-20 in your running engine will be closer to what the manufacurer specs anyways. So good choice!

As for the "flash in the pan"

That's fascinating! I was under the impression that fuel dilution in today's vehicles was really not an issue. Anyone know how much fuel (%) dilution is needed to produce the ignition?

I have some used oil in the garage...I betcha you can't guess what I'm going to try when I get home from work

 

[y_p_w]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Razl:
My father in-law's Maxima sees the same usage. I want to tell him to switch to XW-20 so badly but I know he uses quick lubes so they probably don't carry anything lighter than a 5W-30.

Based on your usage, the viscocity of the 5W-20 in your running engine will be closer to what the manufacurer specs anyways. So good choice!

As for the "flash in the pan"

That's fascinating! I was under the impression that fuel dilution in today's vehicles was really not an issue. Anyone know how much fuel (%) dilution is needed to produce the ignition?

I have some used oil in the garage...I betcha you can't guess what I'm going to try when I get home from work

---

I rented a car last Dec when my car was unavailable after an accident. The rental was a Mazda 6 from a Hertz Local Edition. The only facilities they had were to wash the car. I would have thought they'd bring it into one of their maintenance facilities at an airport, but it had a quickie lube sticker indicating that they had it changed with Mobil 5W-20.

As for fuel dilution, I think it's been brought up a few times that these days fuel will react with other things in the oil to produce insolubles.

 

[messiah4linux]

Sorry I forgot to mention that my Explorer is the OHV, er pushrod type.

Owners manual also shows three engines mine being the OHV, and also there is an optional SOHC V6 4.0 and another pushrod V8 5.0L.

After reading all the post, maybe I will leave this oil in for a few thousand miles and splurge for a TD-UOA just to see what really happens. Why heck I might just take it this summer to Galveston or CC just see if I can brutalize/torture it in the hot weather then do the test.

No really my thoughts on this oil was that it is light and thin and will splatter when the engine is cool. Then it will quickly heat up much faster with the short trips it will see, thus being as though it has been driven further than maybe the 1.5 miles to work.

Just FYI the factory oil gauge shows the same pressure as the 5w40 I had in it before the change. I drove it around for about a half hour after changing the oil just to see if the pressure would drop and it did not.

I did not even notice any power gains, nor any different noises coming from the engine.

My only concern on wear would be at the rocker arms. They might could cause a valve keeper to fail and let go.

However, I think the 2 point spread on the cst between a 5w20 and 5w30 is kinda overated.

Thank you all for your comments and opinions.