Y-pipe single exhaust - VS - True dual exhaust
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Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
Have they posted their dyno-graphs to show proof?
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
Have they posted their dyno-graphs to show proof?
After swapping for a Flowmaster 40 in my old 99 F250SD I developed a theory about this "lost low end torque." Its very simple. Maybe now your truck makes so much noise while its moving so slow that you *think* it has less torque.
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Originally Posted by umungus1122
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
Have they posted their dyno-graphs to show proof?
I can't get anyone to show dyno proof. They say they can feel it in the seat of their pants. lol
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
Have they posted their dyno-graphs to show proof?
I can't get anyone to show dyno proof. They say they can feel it in the seat of their pants. lol
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
It makes PERFECT sense when you understand what's going on.
True duals only offer an advantage at the very highest RPM's where ONLY max flow is needed.
Max Flow does not = Max velocity
A properly deigned single system has less max flow, but much better low RPM velocity (gases momentum)
They say they felt a loss in low end torque because they are *ACTUALLY* having less exhaust velocity - which does hurt low end torque
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
It makes PERFECT sense when you understand what's going on.
True duals only offer an advantage at the very highest RPM's where ONLY max flow is needed.
Max Flow does not = Max velocity
A properly deigned single system has less max flow, but much better low RPM velocity (gases momentum)
They say they felt a loss in low end torque because they are *ACTUALLY* having less exhaust velocity - which does hurt low end torque
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/03/full-76552-30909-nascar.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by kstanf150
That ain't single by no means
It's two headers dumping into a huge pipe ...³...³...³
The point is, it is NOT dual pipes. Dual pipes would have been cheaper and easier.
Everything happens in NASCAR for a reason - - even if the gain is only .10 HP or 1/10th of a MPH, it still happened for a reason.
That ain't single by no means
It's two headers dumping into a huge pipe ...³...³...³
The point is, it is NOT dual pipes. Dual pipes would have been cheaper and easier.
Everything happens in NASCAR for a reason - - even if the gain is only .10 HP or 1/10th of a MPH, it still happened for a reason.
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by kstanf150
That ain't single by no means
It's two headers dumping into a huge pipe ...³...³...³
The point is, it is NOT dual pipes. Dual pipes would have been cheaper and easier.
Everything happens in NASCAR for a reason - - even if the gain is only .10 HP or 1/10th of a MPH, it still happened for a reason.
It's more like a ProChamber.
Originally Posted by kstanf150
That ain't single by no means
It's two headers dumping into a huge pipe ...³...³...³
The point is, it is NOT dual pipes. Dual pipes would have been cheaper and easier.
Everything happens in NASCAR for a reason - - even if the gain is only .10 HP or 1/10th of a MPH, it still happened for a reason.
It's more like a ProChamber.
GM studied this issue at a length with the F-Body chassis. A 2-to-1 exhaust beat out every version of duals they came up with.
Even on 10/10ths race cars, the exits of the exhaust are only separated in order to shorten the exhaust. Not because there is any automatic advantage to having the two exhausts separated.
Even on 10/10ths race cars, the exits of the exhaust are only separated in order to shorten the exhaust. Not because there is any automatic advantage to having the two exhausts separated.
It's so much easier to notice, and do the changes on a motorcycle. On my 2 cyl bike I run 2 systems, twin pipes and a siamese....I had it dynoed with both systems a couple of years ago, confirming seat of the pants - more mid range with twin pipes, more top end with siamese. I ran the twin pipes this summer, a nice sound around town and a good mid range, still plenty of redline, but most time spent in the fat mid range. Swapped over to the siamese a couple of days ago, and the change is obvious....I'm 500rpm over the redline with every shift, the thing just screams with a 2 into 1 system.
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
It makes PERFECT sense when you understand what's going on.
True duals only offer an advantage at the very highest RPM's where ONLY max flow is needed.
Max Flow does not = Max velocity
A properly deigned single system has less max flow, but much better low RPM velocity (gases momentum)
They say they felt a loss in low end torque because they are *ACTUALLY* having less exhaust velocity - which does hurt low end torque
Yep. Exhaust scavenging is a poorly understood topic among most of the internet. Like everything else, it's a trade off. Where do you want your power band? Low end will make the top end suffer and vice versa.
Though it can also be said a properly designed dual system (I.E you don't need huge tubing) can have the same properties of a single exhaust system. But most people fall for the "XX increase in flow! XX more horsepower and torque!" marketing. Most of the time, the only gains are up near redline.
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
It makes PERFECT sense when you understand what's going on.
True duals only offer an advantage at the very highest RPM's where ONLY max flow is needed.
Max Flow does not = Max velocity
A properly deigned single system has less max flow, but much better low RPM velocity (gases momentum)
They say they felt a loss in low end torque because they are *ACTUALLY* having less exhaust velocity - which does hurt low end torque
Yep. Exhaust scavenging is a poorly understood topic among most of the internet. Like everything else, it's a trade off. Where do you want your power band? Low end will make the top end suffer and vice versa.
Though it can also be said a properly designed dual system (I.E you don't need huge tubing) can have the same properties of a single exhaust system. But most people fall for the "XX increase in flow! XX more horsepower and torque!" marketing. Most of the time, the only gains are up near redline.
As others have said and coming from a company that designs and makes exhaust systems - if properly designed the single can outperform the dual. If no engine backpressure was needed why not get rid of everything. the noise would be pretty loud but also the engine needs back pressure and the single properly designed as it looks above crates more backpressure at low rpm. The duals likely will outperform at wide open throttle but not necessarily at low throttle. Would need to dyno it to know for certain and the Ford plant I am in all the time does run dynos and tweak everything all the time since there is a HP king and tow capacity race between all the truck makers constantly.
Originally Posted by spk2000
As others have said and coming from a company that designs and makes exhaust systems - if properly designed the single can outperform the dual. If no engine backpressure was needed why not get rid of everything. the noise would be pretty loud but also the engine needs back pressure and the single properly designed as it looks above crates more backpressure at low rpm. The duals likely will outperform at wide open throttle but not necessarily at low throttle. Would need to dyno it to know for certain and the Ford plant I am in all the time does run dynos and tweak everything all the time since there is a HP king and tow capacity race between all the truck makers constantly.
How much back pressure does an engine need?
As others have said and coming from a company that designs and makes exhaust systems - if properly designed the single can outperform the dual. If no engine backpressure was needed why not get rid of everything. the noise would be pretty loud but also the engine needs back pressure and the single properly designed as it looks above crates more backpressure at low rpm. The duals likely will outperform at wide open throttle but not necessarily at low throttle. Would need to dyno it to know for certain and the Ford plant I am in all the time does run dynos and tweak everything all the time since there is a HP king and tow capacity race between all the truck makers constantly.
How much back pressure does an engine need?
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
It makes PERFECT sense when you understand what's going on.
True duals only offer an advantage at the very highest RPM's where ONLY max flow is needed.
Max Flow does not = Max velocity
A properly deigned single system has less max flow, but much better low RPM velocity (gases momentum)
They say they felt a loss in low end torque because they are *ACTUALLY* having less exhaust velocity - which does hurt low end torque
Well said, Lintex - this exactly.
Originally Posted by lawnguy
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Duels with X pipe ðŸ‘
I'm hearing from Nissan Titan owners,etc., say that there is a loss in low end TQ adding true duals. Doesn't make sense.
It makes PERFECT sense when you understand what's going on.
True duals only offer an advantage at the very highest RPM's where ONLY max flow is needed.
Max Flow does not = Max velocity
A properly deigned single system has less max flow, but much better low RPM velocity (gases momentum)
They say they felt a loss in low end torque because they are *ACTUALLY* having less exhaust velocity - which does hurt low end torque
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