xW-40 vs xW-30 for Mercedes V6 M272?

[folzag2]

As mentioned, the Mercedes M272 6 cylinder... normally aspirated, port injection, old-school, no funny business. I've always run various flavors of xW40 in it with 10-12k mi OCIs. Though, I've recently talked myself into 7-8k OCI's. It is a Sprinter with a 10qt sump so that should help with longer OCI too. Anyway...

Seems like the vast majority of owners run Mobil 0W40 FS, but I'm not impressed with the new formulation lacking PAO and esters.

I'm thinking of switching to 0W30 ESP because 0W40 ESP isn't available in 5qt jugs and I can't bring myself to spend twice as much money on oil because it's in quarts instead of jugs.

Anybody know how these engines fair on a thinner oil? Does it matter? Some commuting, mostly hwy & longer road trips.

Given Mobil 0W40 was notorious for sheering down to a thick 30, and ESP itself being a thick 30, I'm additionally inclined to think it won't make a difference.

If we do think it makes a difference, I also have the Penn Platinum Euro 0W40 option. Pretty sure it doesn't have Grp4/5 either, but it is 100% GTL. Having said that, I'd not be surprised if Mobil 0W40 FS was 100% GTL too but they just don't talk about it.

 

[SureshR]

You are ok with a thinner but still robust oil as long as you aren't taking it onto the track. But that engine is so old school you're probably good to go with Rotella or Delo. Anyway check Motul for their 5w40.

https://www.motul.com/en-US/products/17920?id=17920&product=MOTUL+8100+X-MAX+0W-40

 

[folzag2]

I'll grant you that comes in 5L jugs, but if the 5L jugs cost the same per volume as ESP X4 quarts... well, sorry, pass.

 

[scrllock]

I don't think your naturally-aspirated, port-injected van is going to give 0w40 FS a challenge. I would want to change the oil more often on a low-saps 229.51 oil like 0w30 ESP.
Any reason you don't think 229.5 is sufficient? If your engine isn't sludged or presenting concerning wear on a UOA, why change?

Of the ones you mentioned, PPE is what I'd go with. 5w40 if you can find it.

 

[folzag2]

Actually, I have been of the opinion 229.5 is sufficient and preferred the high saps formulation.

But then I've come around to thinking better base oil is better oil. Perhaps the PAO and esters in the ESP make it the better choice.

I recall Lake Speed talking about PUP has AN's which are nice, and the secret behind Valvoline's/NAPA formulation and great wear numbers. While PP Euro is not PUP, I also wonder if it's marketing clashing with spec's causing the Euro to not be PUP branded. PUP is marketed as a 20k mile oil. But Euro probably can't meet 229.5 at 20k, but it can at 10k. So they call it PP, which is ostensibly 10k miles, even though it has the same base oil and AN additive as PUP. (I hate how oil manufacturers make us play all these guessing games. I really do wish they'd just state their formulas and let buyers decide what they want.)

 

[edyvw]

Actually, I have been of the opinion 229.5 is sufficient and preferred the high saps formulation.

But then I've come around to thinking better base oil is better oil. Perhaps the PAO and esters in the ESP make it the better choice.

I recall Lake Speed talking about PUP has AN's which are nice, and the secret behind Valvoline's/NAPA formulation and great wear numbers. While PP Euro is not PUP, I also wonder if it's marketing clashing with spec's causing the Euro to not be PUP branded. PUP is marketed as a 20k mile oil. But Euro probably can't meet 229.5 at 20k, but it can at 10k. So they call it PP, which is ostensibly 10k miles, even though it has the same base oil and AN additive as PUP. (I hate how oil manufacturers make us play all these guessing games. I really do wish they'd just state their formulas and let buyers decide what they want.)

Your engine can run on MB 229.5 and MB229.51/52.
That engine in Europe ran on MB229.51 since 2009.
As for long OCI's, both M1 0W40 FS and M1 ESP 0W30 are approved for long drain approvals that require 18k OCI (BMW LL01, or in case of ESP, VW 504.00).

Personally, I would run Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 if available at a good price. Running M1 0W40FS won't do any harm. It is exceptional oil. Base stocks matter, but what really matters is the final product.

 

[kschachn]

I recall Lake Speed talking about PUP has AN's which are nice, and the secret behind Valvoline's/NAPA formulation and great wear numbers. While PP Euro is not PUP, I also wonder if it's marketing clashing with spec's causing the Euro to not be PUP branded. PUP is marketed as a 20k mile oil. But Euro probably can't meet 229.5 at 20k, but it can at 10k. So they call it PP, which is ostensibly 10k miles, even though it has the same base oil and AN additive as PUP. (I hate how oil manufacturers make us play all these guessing games. I really do wish they'd just state their formulas and let buyers decide what they want.)

What? Manufacturers give you the approval.

Lots of unsupported assumptions and imagination in that post.

 

[scrllock]

Actually, I have been of the opinion 229.5 is sufficient and preferred the high saps formulation.

But then I've come around to thinking better base oil is better oil. Perhaps the PAO and esters in the ESP make it the better choice.

I recall Lake Speed talking about PUP has AN's which are nice, and the secret behind Valvoline's/NAPA formulation and great wear numbers. While PP Euro is not PUP, I also wonder if it's marketing clashing with spec's causing the Euro to not be PUP branded. PUP is marketed as a 20k mile oil. But Euro probably can't meet 229.5 at 20k, but it can at 10k. So they call it PP, which is ostensibly 10k miles, even though it has the same base oil and AN additive as PUP. (I hate how oil manufacturers make us play all these guessing games. I really do wish they'd just state their formulas and let buyers decide what they want.)

A better formulated oil is the best oil. If the average BITOG'r was developing an oil it would be nothing but PAO/Ester, 2500ppm zinc, 6.0 HTHS, 600ppm moly. And it would be terrible, lol.

ANs are nice but we have indications that products like VRP or M1 ESP are using new cleaning agents that haven't really reached the public view yet. And like kschachn said, those are some really big assumptions in the differences between PUP/PPE. The vast majority of information have have about oils is from spec sheets, MSDS and poorly done BS UOAs. We don't have a ton of FTIR analysis or insight about the full oil composition, particularly bases. Even stuff like KRL testing, we only have super minimal data from a couple youtube videos and testing done by one or two members. Really hard to make definitive, broad claims like this from that.

 

[kschachn]

A better formulated oil is the best oil. If the average BITOG'r was developing an oil it would be nothing but PAO/Ester, 2500ppm zinc, 6.0 HTHS, 600ppm moly. And it would be terrible, lol.

ANs are nice but we have indications that products like VRP or M1 ESP are using new cleaning agents that haven't really reached the public view yet. And like kschachn said, those are some really big assumptions in the differences between PUP/PPE. The vast majority of information have have about oils is from spec sheets, MSDS and poorly done BS UOAs. We don't have a ton of FTIR analysis or insight about the full oil composition, particularly bases. Even stuff like KRL testing, we only have super minimal data from a couple youtube videos and testing done by one or two members. Really hard to make definitive, broad claims like this from that.

I no longer work in a research laboratory, but when I did I could have formulated a "motor oil" with exactly that as an analysis and it would have indeed destroyed an engine in short order.

 

[altaylar]

Have you thought about Rotella? Probably that's what I would use if I had your MB. Should not be an issue to find 5quart jugs

 

[chris719]

As mentioned, the Mercedes M272 6 cylinder... normally aspirated, port injection, old-school, no funny business. I've always run various flavors of xW40 in it with 10-12k mi OCIs. Though, I've recently talked myself into 7-8k OCI's. It is a Sprinter with a 10qt sump so that should help with longer OCI too. Anyway...

Seems like the vast majority of owners run Mobil 0W40 FS, but I'm not impressed with the new formulation lacking PAO and esters.

I'm thinking of switching to 0W30 ESP because 0W40 ESP isn't available in 5qt jugs and I can't bring myself to spend twice as much money on oil because it's in quarts instead of jugs.

Anybody know how these engines fair on a thinner oil? Does it matter? Some commuting, mostly hwy & longer road trips.

Given Mobil 0W40 was notorious for sheering down to a thick 30, and ESP itself being a thick 30, I'm additionally inclined to think it won't make a difference.

If we do think it makes a difference, I also have the Penn Platinum Euro 0W40 option. Pretty sure it doesn't have Grp4/5 either, but it is 100% GTL. Having said that, I'd not be surprised if Mobil 0W40 FS was 100% GTL too but they just don't talk about it.

There's very little difference between a Euro 30 and Euro 40 in terms of viscosity. The 30 is at the highest end of HTHS for a 30 and 40s are at the low end.

 

[chris719]

Have you thought about Rotella? Probably that's what I would use if I had your MB. Should not be an issue to find 5quart jugs

No. I don't understand this fascination with Rotella. It's not anything special and has no MB approvals for gasoline engines.