XOM Synthetic basestocks for automotive engine oil

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Originally Posted By: Pablo

Oh you think Amsoil only uses XOM basestock. Not correct.


I never said that either. If they're smart they buy from more than one source, which they do [fact], and "probably" go for lowest bidder. [They're in it for profits not their health so that's "probably" a fact too]. XOM can reverse engineer Amsoil's product and know who else they're buying from as well.

Amsoil can buy the best that is offered to them, if they want, or a lower grade. It is possible that XOM, Chevron, etc. might not be selling the very best they make. Neither one of us can prove or disprove that statement. XOM might keep the very best for themselves. It happens in other industries.
 
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Glad you changed fact and truth to probably and can. Man you crack me up!!
banana2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Glad you changed fact and truth to probably and can. Man you crack me up!!
banana2.gif



You crack me up too!
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Since Amsoil is so small and not really an OTC oil company, do you actually think XOM cares one iota what's in their formulations or any other boutique formulator for that matter? I think not.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Since Amsoil is so small and not really an OTC oil company, do you actually think XOM cares one iota what's in their formulations or any other boutique formulator for that matter? I think not.


I agree. Certainly not at the top level.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
demarpaint - You said:

" XOM might keep the very best for themselves. It happens in other industries."

It does.................! And in the Lubes Industry too!




Doug - you are big on proof. And truth and facts. You and demarpaint made a statement. Can you actually prove this? demarpaint said he can't. It's easy to chuck this stuff out there.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
5w30's go into SAE 20 range all the time (by design).


True, and I'm not sure I buy "by design" either; rather, I tend to think it's "forced" by price point.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
demarpaint - You said:

" XOM might keep the very best for themselves. It happens in other industries."

It does.................! And in the Lubes Industry too!




Thanks Doug, it makes a lot of sense.
 
Hi,
Pablo - the operative words are "might" and "other Industries"

This was not directed by me at any specific Blender or Oil Company as a result. I can confirm however from my dealings with two major Oil Companies in lubricant development that their formulations often contain "materials" that are not immediately on-sold to others in the field

They get an immediate Market edge and of course this becomes an integral part of "Field Testing"

Castrol's original Formula SLX 0w30 (GC) was such a case

And no, I won't be going any further.........!!

Many Industries use the same approach - Donaldson in filters too perhaps with Synteq media? Many examples exist all around us especially in the Auto Industry that's what Licences and Patents are all about

Look at the history of the Auto Industry - Japanese (British), British (Germany, France), Korea (Japanese), Chinese (Us, Germany etc). Outdated Japanese Auto technology got the Korean players off the ground - as the Japanese had used the British technologies during the 1950-1960s!
 
lol. I've said many times before, in terms of additives used, Amsoil has always lagged behind. They claim to use better additives, which is a vague statement, but from all the VOA's and UOA's I've seen, they are usually one step behind like the guy from Noria said. Until GF-4, Amsoil was using a lot of Ca/Mg and ZDP. When Molekule was here, he would always keep updates on where the industry was going. I think Amsoilis now on par with anything out there in certain grades. They seem to boost additive levels for longer drains, that's really all you're paying for. The higher Tbn and full PAO/Ester base oils, which are great. Good stuff.
 
You never miss a chance to get in a dig at Amsoil. Good for you.

"I've said", "I think", They seem", all would indicate a bit of uncertainty.

Hardly conclusive. Just more baseless innuendo.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
lol. I've said many times before, in terms of additives used, Amsoil has always lagged behind. They claim to use better additives, which is a vague statement, but from all the VOA's and UOA's I've seen, they are usually one step behind like the guy from Noria said. Until GF-4, Amsoil was using a lot of Ca/Mg and ZDP. When Molekule was here, he would always keep updates on where the industry was going. I think Amsoilis now on par with anything out there in certain grades. They seem to boost additive levels for longer drains, that's really all you're paying for. The higher Tbn and full PAO/Ester base oils, which are great. Good stuff.


I agree, since Amsoil buys from their competition in many instances, and doesn't manufacture but blends a finished product they are only able to use what is available for sale to them in their finished products. If XOM wants to keep certain better formulations for themselves and not for sale to anyone else they have that right. This is no different than in any other industry. Why not keep the best for yourself? Doug did a great job summing it up as it relates to the oil industry. No one is disputing the fact that Amsoil caters to people who want to extend drain intervals, using products from other companies available for sale to them.
 
I don't know much about the industry on that level, I agree. My opinions are based on 10 years of BITOG and talking to people that have worked in the industry. I sound like a broken record, but since GF-4 Amsoil has changed a lot IMO. They are using more modern additives. For years, and rightfully so, they were hesitant on making the move away from the cost effective/tried and true ZDP. They also now use moly after years of not using it.
 
This pretty much says what I've tried to bring across in a few threads. This statement coming from an industry expert, and well respected member, sums it up for me.

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
demarpaint - You said:

" XOM might keep the very best for themselves. It happens in other industries."

It does.................! And in the Lubes Industry too!
 
Some people know some things, other people don't.

I'm sorry, but some people in this thread don't know about commodity base stocks. Mr. Hillary has admitted it in the past and even qualified it his statement here saying basically he is speculating.

I suggest you learn rather than have your "logic" validated by a single member. Agreement by a couple people does not validate the truth.

Yes let's tell the world these basestocks are inferior, but it's what XOM produces in mass:

http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Chem-E...ngine-oils.aspx

Quote:
Synthetic basestocks for automotive engine oils
Automobil engine piston in motion on a blue-purple background

The highest performance standards for passenger car and heavy-duty engine oils can be met using synthetic basestocks such as:

* SpectraSyn™ PAO
* SpectraSyn Plus™ Advanced PAO
* SpectraSyn Ultra™ High VI PAO
* Synesstic™ AN (Alkylated Naphthalene) Blendstocks
* Esterex™ esters


Is XOM lying? Because we all know, they make smaller better batches for use in their consumer motor oil!! All without proof, because it's what other industries do! You guys are way out on a limb and no one has a scrap of evidence.

You aren't even on firm ground, because bulk chemical processors live and die by volume. Hey, why not just ask XOM?
 
Prove to us that XOM doesn't keep proprietary basestocks or ad packs for themselves, and releases them at later dates as they come up with newer products. I don't recall using the word inferior. You listed what XOM sells to blenders, and the advertising talk that goes along with it.

I seriously doubt Doug Hillary made up his comments in this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Prove to us that XOM doesn't keep proprietary basestocks or ad packs for themselves


Prove they do
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Prove to us that XOM doesn't keep proprietary basestocks or ad packs for themselves, and releases them at later dates as they come up with newer products. I don't recall using the word inferior. You listed what XOM sells to blenders, and the advertising talk that goes along with it.

I seriously doubt Doug Hillary made up his comments in this thread.


Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If XOM wants to keep certain better formulations for themselves....XOM might keep the very best for themselves.


Please provide the proof. Just saying "Doug" over and over again doesn't mean proof of anything. Doug is a good guy and all, but he's decidedly not a commodity chemical guy.
 
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