xl vs non-xl tires? behavior, ride, etc...

Joined
May 18, 2021
Messages
1,588
Location
central europe
what are the differences? does it make sense for small hatchback?
or better be avoided ?
(when looking at lower profiles, xl becomes more common) i don´t understand why.
 
generally, when the profile gets lower the load capacity of the tyre is lower aswel. By offering xl versions more cars can fit low profile tyres in the correct width and overall diameter. But the inflation pressure needs to be set higher than on the sticker in the vehicle to get the higher load rating.

There's no difference I've ever noticed between xl and sl, for identical size and model tyres as far as comfort and drive goes. But there will be if you take advantage of the higher load capacity by increasing inflation pressure. Of course, since they are generally low profile tyres, comfort is already compromised in favour of handling.
 
Some tire manufactures offer the same tire model in a Standard Load and an XL version. The XL version might have a 2 ply sidewall while the Standard Load version may have a 1 ply sidewall. You might get a better ride with the 1 ply sidewall while the 2 ply version could provide better steering response.
 
I have "XL" tires on my truck. It amounts to an extra few hundred pounds of load carrying capacity and a little less squirm with the rear end when heavily loaded. . My tires are much larger than the ones for your hatchback. For your application and the small increase in load carrying capacity, probably not needed.
 
Does it make sense for a small hatchback? No!

Why? What an XL does it allow a higher load carrying capacity - albeit at elevated pressures. But at the same pressure, the load carrying capacity is the same. Why do that (added expense!) when the benefit isn't going to be of use to you?

What the difference between an SL and an XL? An XL will have a slightly stronger body ply(s) and belts. The ride will be ever so slightly stiffer and the turn in will be ever so slightly crisper, but you have to be very attuned to the car to feel the difference. Most people don't!

That stronger ply(s) might mean the difference between 1 ply and 2, but not usually.

The rolling resistance will be a bit worse for an XL, and the wear will be slightly better, but not enough to be noticeable. Traction will be the same.

Why do lower profile tires tend to be XL? Because when one plus sizes the wheels, there frequently isn't enough fender room to use an SL size, so they use something a bit smaller in an XL.
 
Last edited:
comfy seats + soft suspension + high profile, perhaps this is too much.
going a little faster into corners even with this small engine, it felt really understeering. i had to lift the foot.
i hope low profile will decrease jelly effect :)
 
I run "XL" tires on every truck I have had. They handle 750 pounds tongue weight just fine. Not needed on a small vehicle.
 
Some tire manufactures offer the same tire model in a Standard Load and an XL version. The XL version might have a 2 ply sidewall while the Standard Load version may have a 1 ply sidewall. You might get a better ride with the 1 ply sidewall while the 2 ply version could provide better steering response.

I've never come across extra plys in the sidewall for xl versions, and I've been looking...
 
comfy seats + soft suspension + high profile, perhaps this is too much.
going a little faster into corners even with this small engine, it felt really understeering. i had to lift the foot.
i hope low profile will decrease jelly effect :)

It won't as under/oversteer balance won't change with 4 other tyres. I'm guessing you have a front engined front wheel drive car? What will help the most is increasing the roll stiffness of the rear suspension.
 
what are the differences? does it make sense for small hatchback?
or better be avoided ?
(when looking at lower profiles, xl becomes more common) i don´t understand why.
When you go to a physically smaller tire, it needs to be tougher to carry the same load rating so many manufacturers make xl tires in these sizes to be legal to use on the street. For my Focus the stock tire size load rating is 87 with an H speed rating. I put on some 85 load rated, BFG sport comp 2 lower profile tires but with a much higher speed rating which were quite good on the street, technically not legal, but so much better than all-season tires in any spring, summer, fall weather. They were pretty good at autocross too but needed quite high front pressures to keep them off the sidewalls, which isn't ideal.
For legal tires this year, in 195/55R15 I was considering some Sailun R01's with 89 load rating which may need a bit less air pressure for autocross.
Lower profile tires sporty tires will have stiffer sidewalls but I found them quite tolerable going from 195/60R15 to 195/55R15. Sticky tires will make your body roll increase due to more grip but the car will feel sharper. For the street though, you shouldn't be driving that hard too often, go do some autocross or track days where you can learn without too much risk. With fwd you can always rotate the car on corner entry with a throttle chop, but exits under power need a LSD to help put some power down without a lot of understeer, otherwise you just learn to control your right foot.
 
Last edited:
I run "XL" tires on every truck I have had. They handle 750 pounds tongue weight just fine. Not needed on a small vehicle.
problem is that with lower profiles, is harder to find non xl tires.

thinking going from:
IMG_0180.jpg


to:
maxresdefault.jpg

rear torsion bar is "long travel", quite soft.
fwd
 
Last edited:
you can also increase the rear roll resistance by installing higher rate springs at the back. Maybe some helper springs for towing exist, and dampers with higher nitrogen pressure increase the spring rate aswell.

Up front you can add some extra negative camber quite easily and for free, which will help the front push less to the outside of the curb.

Increase the tyre width as far as you can, but make sure you get wheels that are the right width for the tyres you will mount. Keep the ET (offset) of the wheels as close to stock as possible.
 
My 2017 MINI Cooper Clubman S ALL4 requires XL tires in some sizes. 225/45-17 specifically, among others. So sometimes they are used and needed on small hatchbacks.
 
I rarely disagree with CapriRacer but this is the case.
Small hatchbacks do require XL tires and their higher load ratings (high pressures) when they are used on high performance versions or use crazy big wheels.
In the USA take a look at required PSI for Ford Focus RS (I think it had 43PSI on the door jamb sticker). That I know for sure.
Second car may be VW Golf R and possibly Golf GTI.

They are small hatchbacks with 19" wheels.

Krzyś
 
Years ago we spec XL tires on half ton pickups to increase GVWR along with other components. P235-15 if I recall. That’s a long time ago. Same size tire, more pressure for heavier loads. With no load, decrease pressure to preserve ride quality.
 
My 2017 MINI Cooper Clubman S ALL4 requires XL tires in some sizes. 225/45-17 specifically, among others. So sometimes they are used and needed on small hatchbacks.
rubber height about same with 205/50 17 :)
yeah, it seems, low profile=less chance of non-xl tires
probably i should stop worry, and grab what´s in shop.
 
One thing is important to understand since there's a popular misunderstanding: It isn't
the tire itself supporting the car's weight. It's the air in it which carries the weight. That's
why you see the tire flat without the air in it. So the tire's job is mainly to hold the air in
it and the tire's structure is mainly stressed by tensile loading, not by compressive load.
not so much at least and excluded the tread of course. So after you apprehend this it's
easy to understand the rest. Lower profile tires got less air, so the load carrying needs
to be accomodated by using higher air pressures and reinforcing the tire structure. If
the tire's stucture is stiffer it's likely heavier too. I'd usually skip XL type tires if possible.
Sadly I can't. On my Mini I'm running 205/45 R17 in the summer, only XL available (88Y).
Winter tires are 195/55 R16 91H, again XL. While some SL would have been available, I
wanted Michelin and H rated tires (210 m/h) and that sadly mandated LI 91/XL. On my
GTI I'm running 225/40 R18 92Y in the summer season, again XL. I think it makes sense
and this car is heavier compared to the Mini and 92Y is common for this car even though
Michelin offers an 88Y version of the PSS. In the winter season I'm running 225/45 R17
94W, so again XL. It's similar to the Mini's winter tires - Michelin make the W rated in a
94/XL version only and I didn't want to content myself with V (240 km/h) during the cold
half of the year. I know, it's kind of a first world problem. Well, my old Porsche fortunately
is running 205/55ZR16 91Y and 225/50ZR16 92Y - both are SL.
However, as a bottom line, the biggest issue for me is, many sizes aren't even available as
SL. I'm forced to run XL tires on two of my cars even though I'd prefer to run SL tires or I
had to make a compromise in other regards (speed rating).


comfy seats + soft suspension + high profile, perhaps this is too much.
going a little faster into corners even with this small engine, it felt really understeering. i had to lift the foot.
i hope low profile will decrease jelly effect :)

Grip doesn't depend on the tire size alone. It's the type of tire more than the size. And
it's (the lack of) sufficient fron camber on very most commuter cars. I'd bet there's less
than one degree of negative camber. Increasing front camber to -1° will increase lateral
grip and reduce understeer. Without appropriate camber any further effort is worthless.

Btw, understeering isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's designed into your car to save your
life. As a matter of fact the majority of drivers isn't trained to cope with oversteering.


rubber height about same with 205/50 17 :)

The vast majority of tire choice in that size is XL (LI 93) with the Pirelli Cinturato P7 summer
tire (Euro spec, not NA spec AS) in 205/50 R17 89V being one of the few exceptions. That
said I would expect very little gain in going from 205/55 R16 to 205/50 R17 particularly as
tire choice is quite limited compared to the very common 205/55 R16.
Honestly, you'll hardly ever make a good handling car out of your Citroen C3. At least it's
quite comfortable for such a small car.
If you actually want to improve handling I'd do a search for DS3 Racing components fitting
your C3. See what I said about front camber above.
If your stock size is 205/55 R16 (91) I wouldn't even bother with XL/94 tyres, but just fit a set
of Michelin Pilot Sport PS4 instead. These are sitting on the front axle of my Porsche and are
MUCH better handling than a vanilla Eco/Touring tire that's likely fitted from factory. Michelin
even make a 94Y version of it if you feel better with going for an XL tire.

Start from there - with an appropriate tire.
.
 
Back
Top