wow toyota sounds evil

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Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: Falken
I'll have to just agree with LeakySeals on what he's saying hope I don't get banned for a week from Bill.

But I'll squeak this one in (I know I can get in trouble so whatever) but the Global Economy is going to be the worst thing we ever did.

I'd take Fortress North America any day of the week rather than compete with people in Mexico who live in a hot climate and can live well off of 20$ a day USD.


Mexico is part of North America, no?



last i checked yes..yes it was but hey maybe that will change one big flood and there blown away. lol it would need to be a BIG flood though
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals

Maybe you have family members that had career-long union jobs. Getting that big pension and bennies in retirement. For the most part, those days are gone. And so are the companies that behaved that way. Why companies went off shore to survive. Can't compete. too costly. Wish it were different, but thats the way it is. A classic example is the US postal service. The majority of its gigantic billion dollar losses are retirement pensions. If it were not for the taxpayer, USPS would be long extinct. And thats the majority reason why GM went through a recent chapt 11 restructure (with our tax money).

In the good old days of Detroit, life was very similar to what what your describing. Everyone worked for GM, Ford, etc. Lived next to the plant, went to the same schools. Raised to work at the auto plant like their parents did. Everyone was in the UAW union. Paid their mandatory union dues. With that union due you got not being able to get fired for being a slacker, inflated salaries and benefits, retirement pension. But you had to do what your told, vote who your told to vote for by the union boss. The long term costs were devastating from a company perspective. Today many have no job, many living in poverty or welfare.

For now were are suffering the consequences of decades of entitlement in the workplace. While we may never see the conditions of the Japanese culture and Toyota, we will have to use something similar to compete.



Very astute post from someone who recognizes the true root causes involved!


I agree 100%. I grew up in a "Ford Family" and had several family members who worked for Ford at both the Grade Lane and Chamberlain Lane plants in Louisville in the 1960-2000 time frame. One of my cousins had a line job that required crawling under the dash to install the HVAC assembly properly. He was the only guy that actually crawled under the cowling and did it right. That made the other workers who half-axxed the install look bad, so the guys further up the line started spitting on the floorboard where my cousin had to work to do the job right. The "Ford Family" tradition ended with me...
 
Asiancivicmaniac, I didn't name the concept or what it means I can only state what it meant. Canada / US keeps their borders open to trade with each other while guarding itself from whatever causes it turmoil.

And I use it loosely as we haven't played out this Globalism fad yet, but Communism certainly hasn't died either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_North_America

No mention of Mexico. But I am no history buff just your average idiot lol.
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals

Maybe you have family members that had career-long union jobs. Getting that big pension and bennies in retirement. For the most part, those days are gone. And so are the companies that behaved that way. Why companies went off shore to survive. Can't compete. too costly. Wish it were different, but thats the way it is. A classic example is the US postal service. The majority of its gigantic billion dollar losses are retirement pensions. If it were not for the taxpayer, USPS would be long extinct. And thats the majority reason why GM went through a recent chapt 11 restructure (with our tax money).

In the good old days of Detroit, life was very similar to what what your describing. Everyone worked for GM, Ford, etc. Lived next to the plant, went to the same schools. Raised to work at the auto plant like their parents did. Everyone was in the UAW union. Paid their mandatory union dues. With that union due you got not being able to get fired for being a slacker, inflated salaries and benefits, retirement pension. But you had to do what your told, vote who your told to vote for by the union boss. The long term costs were devastating from a company perspective. Today many have no job, many living in poverty or welfare.

For now were are suffering the consequences of decades of entitlement in the workplace. While we may never see the conditions of the Japanese culture and Toyota, we will have to use something similar to compete.



Very astute post from someone who recognizes the true root causes involved!


I agree 100%. I grew up in a "Ford Family" and had several family members who worked for Ford at both the Grade Lane and Chamberlain Lane plants in Louisville in the 1960-2000 time frame. One of my cousins had a line job that required crawling under the dash to install the HVAC assembly properly. He was the only guy that actually crawled under the cowling and did it right. That made the other workers who half-axxed the install look bad, so the guys further up the line started spitting on the floorboard where my cousin had to work to do the job right. The "Ford Family" tradition ended with me...


i agree with the above as well. and its sad that they would do that just because he did his job correctly.

i am not pro union by no means and i understand why toyota is like that. i just dont like the fact that toyota has their own city. i understand it i just do not like it. there needs to be a balance. and not to start and brand war but most honda employees are happy and they are treated very well. and they build good stuff. and as far as i know honda does not have a city......
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
Asiancivicmaniac, I didn't name the concept or what it means I can only state what it meant. Canada / US keeps their borders open to trade with each other while guarding itself from whatever causes it turmoil.

And I use it loosely as we haven't played out this Globalism fad yet, but Communism certainly hasn't died either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_North_America

No mention of Mexico. But I am no history buff just your average idiot lol.


Except we're not stuck in the last century. And the term communist seems to be a term freely thrown around to describe anyone who does not agree with our own ideas.

What I see in this thread is a lot of ethnocentrism and it would be non-conducive to attempt to carry out any meaningful dialogue on the subject since the OP and several others already have their minds made up and really cannot see the big picture.
 
I grew up in West Virginia in the Appalachian mountain region. I remember coal companies that owned the houses, built the schools, operated their owns stores and paid the miners with their own currency (scrip). They ran the medical clinics and dental offices and every aspect of your life was controlled by the company that you worked for. Tennessee Ernie Ford sang a song titled "Sixteen Tons" in which he speaks of owing his soul to the company store. That is what this phrase was all about. You can travel to these town this very day in the 21st century and see how things are in the good old USA. The mines have practically closed up but the towns still exist for the people without the resources to leave. Now instead of receiving company scrip they receive food stamps and welfare checks.

You think Toyota is horrible because they're the primary employment center of a region? Wow,,, get out and explore the world. There's a lot to be learned.
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
I grew up in West Virginia in the Appalachian mountain region. I remember coal companies that owned the houses, built the schools, operated their owns stores and paid the miners with their own currency (scrip). They ran the medical clinics and dental offices and every aspect of your life was controlled by the company that you worked for. Tennessee Earnie Ford sang a song titled "Sixteen Tons" in which he speaks of owing his soul to the company store. That is what this phrase was all about. You can travel to these town this very day in the 21st century and see how things are in the good old USA. The mines have practically closed up but the towns still exist for the people without the resources to leave. Now instead of receiving company scrip they receive food stamps and welfare checks.

You think Toyota is horrible because they're the primary employment center of a region? Wow,,, get out and explore the world. There's a lot to be learned.


Very similar to any city that grows around big industry. Much of the development of Oshawa was due to GM. Much of the development of my town was due to GE. Detroit of course grew, flourished and then basically collapsed around the "big three" (as I believe somebody else already mentioned).
 
Asiancivicmaniac, history is very important.

If we don't pay attention to our past, we will forever be stuck in the last century.

I don't want to have a high horse competition as I'd surely allow you to win and would agree with any good points you may offer.

I am only saying that maybe Globalism is just an ism like any other. It may work for some, but what about the ones it doesn't work for? To [censored] with them?

Well that isn't very fair either. I remember collecting UNICEF for China, now they own portions of our oil sands.

What does China do for the U.S. worker? I would love to know the benefits as they don't seem very clear to me.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken

What does China do for the U.S. worker? I would love to know the benefits as they don't seem very clear to me.


Makes him become cheaper to employers.

I wish I could remember the source for a study I read that concluded that globalism (contrary to what the elite and it's media will tell you)will actually only benefit a very few at the top of the income scale, the vast majority will either become much less well off in the future, although initially the poorest will gain some very modest increases in wealth.

As for the western idea of the middle class (which by the way allowed for the US to become a very wealthy, stable, and pleasant place for people to live) will be in the dust bin of history to be replaced by a huge underclass of have nots ruled over by a tiny elite of incredibly wealthy haves.

I would argue that the US (with our Constitution and God Given rights ) cannot survive the plague of the New World Order (aka Globalism)
 
Top the Op, your young and really need to spend some time in school learning about how companies work and corporate history.

Ever hear of coal mine towns of last century? If not do some reading, that would be a good start for you.

The world is a big place, with lots of different people living in different ways. Go spend some time in the 3rd world to see some real poverty. It gives perspective.

Japan is a nice country, I think I might be going to visit it next year for a bit. Its first world, and whatever they do is pretty well run, clean, and in general done well. Their standard of living is pretty much on par with any first world country.

Toyota also runs factories in this country as well, and provides pretty good jobs to a lot of hard working American's.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Samuraidog
The problem is the pressure for others to become more like Toyota. With the downturn in the economy on a global basis, more employees are being treated to the "Toyota Way". Look at the slow chipping away of worker benefits over the last few years (goes beyond Japanese automakers).

Apple is on the same path. I've read of some pretty rough conditions for workers in China feverishly working to supply Apple with their latest gizmo. Apparently, suicide is a problem there too, yet we hardly ever hear about it.

It doesn't give one much hope for the future of humanity. Sad.


Toyota and the Japanese have been out of favor for awhile now. The Germans are in at the moment, Porsche specifically, but again its really flavor of the month in terms of who management drags in to emulate.
 
A lot of sad posts here. I never thought I would see the day where working class Americans put down their own country, products manufactured in their own country, unions, American companies and then defend foreign entities and make arguments that weaken their position as an American worker.

Very sad indeed. And these same people probably call themselves patriots.
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
I grew up in West Virginia in the Appalachian mountain region. I remember coal companies that owned the houses, built the schools, operated their owns stores and paid the miners with their own currency (scrip). They ran the medical clinics and dental offices and every aspect of your life was controlled by the company that you worked for. Tennessee Ernie Ford sang a song titled "Sixteen Tons" in which he speaks of owing his soul to the company store. That is what this phrase was all about. You can travel to these town this very day in the 21st century and see how things are in the good old USA. The mines have practically closed up but the towns still exist for the people without the resources to leave. Now instead of receiving company scrip they receive food stamps and welfare checks.

You think Toyota is horrible because they're the primary employment center of a region? Wow,,, get out and explore the world. There's a lot to be learned.



i think this is a great post. keep in mind i was under the understanding that toyota basically owned the city and the people were basically born and raised to work for that company. i have no problem with them being a huge place of business. what worries me is corporations having control over cities. i mean if every town around was owned by Wal-Mart that would not be good. i have no problem with them employing large numbers of people as long as they are not oppressed and used. i have read on the internet and it may have been in that article to that they were lowering wages for people working for them. i have a problem with lowering wages and i have a problem with keeping people temporary just so they are cheaper to employ and easier to get rid of.
 
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
toyota has a city and from the sounds of it they run the [censored] thing. t me that sounds like a limited amount of freedom.

i dont mind working. i feel like you aren't hearing what i am saying, yes if someone needs their car done i will do it if that is what the boss wants me to do. but 106 hours of overtime in a month is a lot. and that's not even my issue. my concern is they basically run this city around a corporation. like apple above people live where they work. i am sorry that's nuts. people have a right to work if they work hard people deserve a fair wage ect ect but making a city around the company is a little overboard IMO. i get to go to work as a mechanic and when its time to leave i can leave and go to a bar or a movie. these people live and breathe toyota.


LOL! It just goes to show how naive this response can be.

Granted, unless you live and work as a Japanese worker in Japan, which Toyota is no different to many other domestic/global conglomerates there, working long hard hours in various Asian countries is a norm.

Let me tell you my own story: I DO have a close friend who works for Toyota in Japan (Toyota city) in a different dept, so I understand and know how he "suffers". To him, this is rather normal affair. (if you understand the orient culture esp. Japanese, you will then understand what I mean).

Lastly: I was a certified mech 2+decades ago, but turned my life around when I quit and decided to go back to shool to earn a degree. Now I work in an office with a very stable, air-conditioned environment with no worries about straining my back working under the hood in 103F small dusty shop environment.

Q.
 
how many times do i have to say it? the long hours doesn't bother me its the idea that they own a city that i find strange.
 
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: Falken
I'll have to just agree with LeakySeals on what he's saying hope I don't get banned for a week from Bill.

But I'll squeak this one in (I know I can get in trouble so whatever) but the Global Economy is going to be the worst thing we ever did.

I'd take Fortress North America any day of the week rather than compete with people in Mexico who live in a hot climate and can live well off of 20$ a day USD.


Mexico is part of North America, no?



last i checked yes..yes it was but hey maybe that will change one big flood and there blown away. lol it would need to be a BIG flood though
smile.gif
 
Funny Southpark clip!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/12/10/bc-tumbler-ridge-miners.html

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/...n-oil-resources

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/11/Chairman-Harper/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/17/f-real-estate-foreign-ownership.html

I would like to know what impact China is having on our American cousins if you care to post. I hear China owns a lot of U.S. debt but I am not sure how much or what it really means in day to day life.

I would also like to note that Japan faces very similar struggles in the Global Village, to keep the posts pertinent and to not go off topic too much.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I agree with Dakota on this one. While it isn't national fascism it appears that Toyota City is a form of a fascist fiefdom.

Also agree about "globalism", or NWO, it is a thinly veiled form of international fascism, nothing more, nothing less.

A SERIOUS THREAT TO INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY, AND THE ABILITY FOR THE HUMAN BEING TO BE A, "FREEMAN".


Toyota City looks to me almost like neo-serfdom.
 
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