wow toyota sounds evil

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The problem is the pressure for others to become more like Toyota. With the downturn in the economy on a global basis, more employees are being treated to the "Toyota Way". Look at the slow chipping away of worker benefits over the last few years (goes beyond Japanese automakers).

Apple is on the same path. I've read of some pretty rough conditions for workers in China feverishly working to supply Apple with their latest gizmo. Apparently, suicide is a problem there too, yet we hardly ever hear about it.

It doesn't give one much hope for the future of humanity. Sad.
 
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
do other companies do this?


Millions of them.

Toyota's system of production has been the model of efficiency for decades and companies spend billions of dollars attempting to follow in their path.

Every single successful company I have worked for has had 5/6S programs, kaizen events, formalized qualifications in quality management (Six Sigma, etc...) and many other aspects of Toyotism.
From a sociological standpoint, there is much that could be better about the system... but again in many ways it's far better than the typical Western production line system.
 
From the site. It would be like us taking your posts are fact

LEGITIMACY AND EXPERTISE: I am not professor or an expert on the subjects I write about but I have done a fair amount of reading about them. I try to use good sources (see below) and have been doing what I am doing—collecting and organizing in formation and facts— for several years now and have developed some skill at it. The text is written as factoids in travel guide, magazine and newspaper styles rather than an academic style. I don’t have footnotes and bibliographies but often I list the source under the first fact in each section. When a source is not listed the information can be taken to be a generally accepted fact (often seen in at least two different places) or has been arrived at through observation (direct or second hand through other sources), by common sense or was taken from a newspaper or magazine article that didn’t attribute it.
 
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When I worked in Aerospace they adopted this stuff.

It ended up becoming it's own beast and became a time waster when pushed too far.

I remember I couldn't get my work done because of Lean, taking photos, doing walk arounds etc. etc.
 
Your title is a example of why American auto manufacturing fell behind the Japanese losing market share here. Evil is an American perception of working conditions. Different culture, different work ethic over there. No entitlement, no high priced union jobs, no complaining.
 
Evil is the American perception of working conditions? Was that a joke? While I have no doubt there are lazy American workers, I hate to think workers should have to accept unsafe conditions, toxic chemicals/ fumes and knowing that they will be discarded once their body can no longer do the work for sub-living wage standards. History has proven that factory owners don't exactly help out workers without a little incentive. If letting workers have safe conditions is evil, I would hate to see your idea of good.

ref
 
Originally Posted By: refaller
Evil is the American perception of working conditions? Was that a joke? While I have no doubt there are lazy American workers, I hate to think workers should have to accept unsafe conditions, toxic chemicals/ fumes and knowing that they will be discarded once their body can no longer do the work for sub-living wage standards. History has proven that factory owners don't exactly help out workers without a little incentive. If letting workers have safe conditions is evil, I would hate to see your idea of good.

ref


Does not mean to disrespect you but:

I have gone to a Japanese Automotive plant, you can eat on their floor.
They are very clean so there is no unsafe condition, toxic chemicals/fumes and sub-living wage standard.

Not sure where you heard that??? Please comment based on the fact and not hear say of people in the States.
 
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
Originally Posted By: refaller
Evil is the American perception of working conditions? Was that a joke? While I have no doubt there are lazy American workers, I hate to think workers should have to accept unsafe conditions, toxic chemicals/ fumes and knowing that they will be discarded once their body can no longer do the work for sub-living wage standards. History has proven that factory owners don't exactly help out workers without a little incentive. If letting workers have safe conditions is evil, I would hate to see your idea of good.

ref


Does not mean to disrespect you but:

I have gone to a Japanese Automotive plant, you can eat on their floor.
They are very clean so there is no unsafe condition, toxic chemicals/fumes and sub-living wage standard.

Not sure where you heard that??? Please comment based on the fact and not hear say of people in the States.



I think he may be referring to the many past articles on some Chinese assembly plants that made items like spark plugs and clothing that were so bad they looks like abandoned buildings.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1063782
 
Not arguing that some plants and workers in other countries are well. I do take umbrage with the idea that expecting safe working environments (which we do in the US, and many countries do not) is "evil". "Evil", to my understanding, is allowing people to make me money while they are sucking in poison and potentially dying every day.

ref
 
Are we talking about Toyota City which I presumed is in Japan?

This is not a generalization of working condition in the WORLD????

Are we changing the subject????
 
ref - its clear you strongly share dakota's perception. Thats fine. But it doesn't change what I said. We were beat by a culture willing to do anything to succeed. Anything to succeed is something most Americans are not willing to do for one excuse after another. Why do I use the word excuse? If the Japs are working in terrible toxic conditions, why do they live longer than we do?

Anyways, its your opinion and your "entitled" to it. But the joke is on us.
 
I want to know why when a user changes their screen name, it says "Formally" instead of what I assume should be "Formerly".
 
There has been one place Americans have been willing to succeed. War. But I wonder if we are about to lose our edge there too.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
There has been one place Americans have been willing to succeed. War. But I wonder if we are about to lose our edge there too.


leaky seals. i have no issue with hard work and doing what it takes to succeed. but toyota runs the schools and basically the city and you grow up without a voice or personality you are basically born to work for toyota. and they make you go through crazy stunts to make sure you aren't a quitter. call me crazy but i believe a person works the best when they know their company actually cares about them, lets them work good hours,and has good benefits, a company who believes in the family unit and realizes we are not just created to work for some company. i agree with giving your heart and sole but work should be a 40 -50 hour a week thing. not a 106 hours of overtime in one month. that is just to far IMO.
 
Dakota,
Your not crazy. Your young, have a lot to learn about business is all. A little history many may disagree with for various reasons. A decade ago it was what the company could do for you. Now, its what you can do for the company. Sad but true. Until you gain experience and skill, you have no negotiating power. Plenty of skilled workers desperate for work.

Maybe you have family members that had career-long union jobs. Getting that big pension and bennies in retirement. For the most part, those days are gone. And so are the companies that behaved that way. Why companies went off shore to survive. Can't compete. too costly. Wish it were different, but thats the way it is. A classic example is the US postal service. The majority of its gigantic billion dollar losses are retirement pensions. If it were not for the taxpayer, USPS would be long extinct. And thats the majority reason why GM went through a recent chapt 11 restructure (with our tax money).

In the good old days of Detroit, life was very similar to what what your describing. Everyone worked for GM, Ford, etc. Lived next to the plant, went to the same schools. Raised to work at the auto plant like their parents did. Everyone was in the UAW union. Paid their mandatory union dues. With that union due you got not being able to get fired for being a slacker, inflated salaries and benefits, retirement pension. But you had to do what your told, vote who your told to vote for by the union boss. The long term costs were devastating from a company perspective. Today many have no job, many living in poverty or welfare.

For now were are suffering the consequences of decades of entitlement in the workplace. While we may never see the conditions of the Japanese culture and Toyota, we will have to use something similar to compete.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Dakota,
Your not crazy. Your young, have a lot to learn about business is all. A little history many may disagree with for various reasons. A decade ago it was what the company could do for you. Now, its what you can do for the company. Sad but true. Until you gain experience and skill, you have no negotiating power. Plenty of skilled workers desperate for work.

Maybe you have family members that had career-long union jobs. Getting that big pension and bennies in retirement. For the most part, those days are gone. And so are the companies that behaved that way. Why companies went off shore to survive. Can't compete. too costly. Wish it were different, but thats the way it is. A classic example is the US postal service. The majority of its gigantic billion dollar losses are retirement pensions. If it were not for the taxpayer, USPS would be long extinct. And thats the majority reason why GM went through a recent chapt 11 restructure (with our tax money).

In the good old days of Detroit, life was very similar to what what your describing. Everyone worked for GM, Ford, etc. Lived next to the plant, went to the same schools. Raised to work at the auto plant like their parents did. Everyone was in the UAW union. Paid their mandatory union dues. With that union due you got not being able to get fired for being a slacker, inflated salaries and benefits, retirement pension. But you had to do what your told, vote who your told to vote for by the union boss. The long term costs were devastating from a company perspective. Today many have no job, many living in poverty or welfare.

For now were are suffering the consequences of decades of entitlement in the workplace. While we may never see the conditions of the Japanese culture and Toyota, we will have to use something similar to compete.



its just amazing to me that these people are basically born and raised to work for toyota. i understand why they do it but that doesn't mean its right. i dont agree with letting you employees get away with murder either. i just think people should work hard but i think basically berthing people to work for a company and thats what the schools teach you to do and everything is based around working at toyota i think its overboard. to me toyota sounds like one of those crazy companies who wants to control the world. lol i think having employees who are happy and feel like they matter would make more productive workers.
 
Allow me to pitch in my 2c's worth:

@ Chevyboy: you need to expand your mindset beyond your local soil (travelling, work-Xchange, work visa, etc.) and see what life and biz are like outside before you can draw your own judgement.

Also: unless successful assimulation happened outside of US: different countries, different biz models, different culture, etc. works differently. So, anything you perceive from a domestic viewpoint as being "evil" is, afterall, maybe a norm in other people's life.

This is a global economy as we see it. So, unless you have walked a mile in their shoes (which I did, different countries outside of US though), otherwise, the subjective criticism lacks merit...

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Dakota,
Your not crazy. Your young, have a lot to learn about business is all. A little history many may disagree with for various reasons. A decade ago it was what the company could do for you. Now, its what you can do for the company. Sad but true. Until you gain experience and skill, you have no negotiating power. Plenty of skilled workers desperate for work.

Maybe you have family members that had career-long union jobs. Getting that big pension and bennies in retirement. For the most part, those days are gone. And so are the companies that behaved that way. Why companies went off shore to survive. Can't compete. too costly. Wish it were different, but thats the way it is. A classic example is the US postal service. The majority of its gigantic billion dollar losses are retirement pensions. If it were not for the taxpayer, USPS would be long extinct. And thats the majority reason why GM went through a recent chapt 11 restructure (with our tax money).


USPS is a horrible example since they would be in a much better position if they had to fund a sane retirement scheme instead of fully pre-paying retirements for workers 75 years into the future. In 2010 their retirement fund was $6.9 billion over-funded, and they were (and still are) required to squirrel away even more to cover future employees. Only an Act of Congress can stop that one. The USPS knows full well it's over-paying its pensions, but can't stop since it is not master of its own destiny in that regard.

S&P 500 companies typically have their pensions 80% funded, and that's considered acceptable.

Toyota isn't particularly evil. We educate/train folks in the public schools to work in a particular industry (read: company) in an area and it's called career training.
 
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