Wood screws for 1" oak sections.

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BMWTurboDzl

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I'm going to build some "T" Slats for my bed and I was going to use the existing 1x4 slats. About half of the pieces are oak and the other are white pine.

Screws and oak can be difficult so I wanted opinions since I will have to screw into a 1" wide section.

Should I make it easy on myself and use the pine section for the bottom of the "T" and oak for the top or should I marry same type of wood (oak w/ oak)?

Any suggestions on type of wood screw when joining oak pieces? I'm going to drill pilot holes so I'm thinking any wood screw will do.
 
The oak on edge will be stronger and having the tip of the screw into oak will make it easier get a tight joint without stripping out the screw. Also you won't have any trouble sinking the screw head flush into the pine without counter sinking. Also drill the pilot holes in the oak fairly large, as it will split or snap the screw if its too small.

I built a couple hay feeders out of white oak and it requires pilots and counter sinking for every screw, and a careful touch on the drill if its a powerful one. Its easy to snap normal deck screws trying to countersink them without pre-drilling the counter sink, or even just trying to snug them up... Dry oak doesn't give much!
 
To be honest I would use oak to oak and/or pine to pine and I would glue them. Any decent wood glue will be stronger than screws and stronger than the wood itself when gluing face/edge grain to itself (not end grain, but that won't be the case here).

Any use of screws or brads would only be to hold the pieces while the glue sets. You could (and many would) use clamps for this purpose instead of screws or brads.

If you insist on screwing them yes predrill the holes slightly smaller than the threads (ideally the thickness of the shank).
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
To be honest I would use oak to oak and/or pine to pine and I would glue them. Any decent wood glue will be stronger than screws and stronger than the wood itself when gluing face/edge grain to itself (not end grain, but that won't be the case here).

Any use of screws or brads would only be to hold the pieces while the glue sets. You could (and many would) use clamps for this purpose instead of screws or brads.

If you insist on screwing them yes predrill the holes slightly smaller than the threads (ideally the thickness of the shank).


I failed to mention that I was also going to use glue as well. Perhaps just using gorilla glue would be easiest.

Thanks!
 
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Well in that case you can get away with a pretty small screw, say a #6 or #8 the thickness of the board you are going through plus another 3/4" or 1". Drilling those small holes is fast and easy.

Another option would be completely replacing the slats with dimensional lumber 2x4 or 2x6, if you don't mind raising the bed 3/4" and spending an hour picking through the pile to find straight ones. I did this on the bottom of my kids full size bunkbed and it's pretty solid.

Gorrilla polyurethane glue is an amazing product but it wouldn't be my first choice. It's brittle and a pain to clean up. Seriously just titebond 1 will be fine, and if the joint does break it won't be on the glue line.
 
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Maybe Gorilla Wood Glue(if they even make it!). But, Gorilla Glue expands quite a bit while drying. So, if you need good detailed work, I'd use Elmer's Wood Glue because the Gorilla Glue will become too messy and cause too much needless sanding as it has expanded/dried.
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Maybe Gorilla Wood Glue(if they even make it!). But, Gorilla Glue expands quite a bit while drying. So, if you need good detailed work, I'd use Elmer's Wood Glue because the Gorilla Glue will become too messy and cause too much needless sanding as it has expanded/dried.


They make it. Wood ver.
 
I am not a fan of gorilla glue. The expansion mess, or the brittleness.

Strange that they would combine Oak slats with pine. I assume the oak is more in the middle of the bed which will take more weight.

I would glue and screw. I pilot drill pretty much everything, especially near the ends of boards where the boards will more easily split.

I really like the Deckmate screws, driven with a roberson(square) bit, not the provided fat phillips. The roberson bits never cam out.

Too many people use drywall screws for the wrong tasks.
 
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
I am not a fan of gorilla glue. The expansion mess, or the brittleness.

Strange that they would combine Oak slats with pine. I assume the oak is more in the middle of the bed which will take more weight.

I would glue and screw. I pilot drill pretty much everything, especially near the ends of boards where the boards will more easily split.

I really like the Deckmate screws, driven with a roberson(square) bit, not the provided fat phillips. The roberson bits never cam out.

Too many people use drywall screws for the wrong tasks.


Their wood glue doesn't do that. They as in myself was considering attaching pine to oak so I wouldn't have to drill pilot holes into both pieces of wood.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Should I make it easy on myself and use the pine section for the bottom of the "T" and oak for the top or should I marry same type of wood (oak w/ oak)?
I'd recommend using the same wood for both.

Quote:
Any suggestions on type of wood screw when joining oak pieces? I'm going to drill pilot holes so I'm thinking any wood screw will do.
As you'll be driving into end grain, you'll need a screw around 2-1/4" so that 2/3'rds of the length is in the end-grain piece and 1/3 in the 'top' or horizontal. A FH (flat-head) would be good or you could use a RH (round head) if having it stick above the surface is no problem.

Single diameter screws are far easier to work with than traditional, variable diameter "wood screws". I'd recommend a "deep thread" design, made of hardened steel, as it holds better, particularly in end-grain. To pull the joint tight, make sure that no threads engage the 'top' piece as you want to 'clamp' the upper board between the lower and the screw head, without any wood pieces from drilling or upper threads getting in the way. If they do, then drill out the upper board one drill size larger or the diameter of the threads so it'll strip when torqued.

Select a drill size based upon the diameter of the shaft, not the threads.

A good source of excellent screws is McFeely's and Lee Valley. screw sheet, fastener materials and finishes

Finally, regarding glue...nothing fancy nor expensive required. White glue is slower to skin-over than yellow and will work fine. Just be sure to soak the end grain, wait a few minutes, then reapply to prevent a glue-starved joint. Poly is messy and the clock starts ticking as soon as you open the bottle as it cures with moisture.

By pre-drilling before glue-up, it'll go together easily and properly aligned.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Maybe Gorilla Wood Glue(if they even make it!). But, Gorilla Glue expands quite a bit while drying. So, if you need good detailed work, I'd use Elmer's Wood Glue because the Gorilla Glue will become too messy and cause too much needless sanding as it has expanded/dried.


They make it. Wood ver.


Very good!

I've never seen/noticed the Gorilla Wood Glue but have used the Original Gorilla Glue(that I mentioned) and their version of Super Glue plus, their Gorilla TAPE. Like the products!

I may look for the Gorilla Wood Glue to replace my deminishing bottle of Elmer's Wood Glue
smile.gif
 
In a test conducted by Fine Woodworking, plain old aliphatic resin glue (yellow wood glue) like Titebond, when properly applied, was stronger than the wood itself. The wood structure failed before the glue line in every case.

The key is to make certain that it's applied correctly. Clean, square joint. Size any end grain. Clamp firmly, but not to the point of glue starvation. Save your $$ on the exotic glues...they don't work any better than regular yellow glue.

For screws, McFeely's makes dedicated screws for your application. Self-drilling with a good (torx or Robertson) drive and a flange for good grip.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
In a test conducted by Fine Woodworking, plain old aliphatic resin glue (yellow wood glue) like Titebond, when properly applied, was stronger than the wood itself. The wood structure failed before the glue line in every case.

The key is to make certain that it's applied correctly. Clean, square joint. Size any end grain. Clamp firmly, but not to the point of glue starvation. Save your $$ on the exotic glues...they don't work any better than regular yellow glue.

For screws, McFeely's makes dedicated screws for your application. Self-drilling with a good (torx or Robertson) drive and a flange for good grip.


Thanks. Since the leg of the "T" will travel down the length of the board above it I will need to make sure everything is squared away.
 
A good jointer (or, if you're skilled, jointer plane) will help with making that edge square and true...

Cheers,
Astro
 
I used to use soap, but it attracts water and can cause long term corrosion problems. The newer self-drilling screws really don't need it like the old wood screws did. If you really want to lube them (though, I wouldn't bother with good screws like the McFeeley's, they have a dry lube coating), then there are lubes specifically for that purpose that work very well.

Right lube for the right application...so, very, BITOG...

http://www.mcfeelys.com/tech/materials.htm

http://www.rockler.com/rockler-screw-lube
 
I haven't had any luck with any of the self drilling deck screws in oak. Atleast not anywhere near the end of a board due to splitting. And #8's even just 2" long are very close to snapping just with the force to turn them in without a pilot hole.
I guess I should try to find some fine threaded ones, but they aren't available locally and I don't do that much rough carpentry with hardwood. Drilling pilot holes makes the softwood screws work pretty well though in my experience.
 
I didn't mean to suggest deck screws, which are optimized for pine and other soft woods. For oak, I would suggest real wood screws, designed for use in hard woods. I am serious about McFeely's...never had one snap...even in hard wood. I don't know that fine threads would be better...but I do know that the self-lubricating coating works.

Regardless, the pilot holes are a good idea when dealing with something like Oak...
 
I think I'll can the soap idea. I like the wax idea better. Either way, solid lube helps tremendously with driving wood screws in, and saving your hands.
 
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