Wix vs Wix XP Oil Filters

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Phishin
I have a hard time believing that Wix makes a filter that is so much inferior than Fram and Amsoil.


In my mind the Wix XP is every bit as good (probably better) as the Fram Ultra, but I have no way to prove it.


Sorry, but there is nothing that says the XP is even close to the Ultra or many other full synthetic filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Is there a reputable third party place to have these tested Dave?



Sure; many. Ryco, Peders, and SWRI all come to mind. There are plenty of others.

What I suspect is that we'll not come up with the funds, despite having 50k members here. Even at a buck a head, we'll fall short because most here would prefer to argue their opinion than actually find the reality. We'd be lucky to cross the $100 mark in donations.


I contacted someone at the SWRI a few years ago, and it was like $15,000 to test 10 filters - not cheap. They test to ISO 4548-42.

sayjac - thanks for digging up that post I did in 2011 about the SWRI testing. You are the thread digger upper master.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Know what I find ironic? That we sit around here and love to pontificate about the potential success or failure of any particular product, but none of us has credible data to back it up.

I have, upon occasion, thrown this out, and will do so again ...

There are PLENTY of us here that would be able to pitch in just $20 each, and put enough money together to send off some filters of dubious repute to a proper, qualified testing lab. There is power in numbers. I would suggest a trusted member to hold the funds in escrow until the task is at hand. And I would suggest a "board" of a few folks who have sensible, non-brand-bias positions to help field the efforts.

Of all the filters we sit here and discuss REPEATEDLY from week to week, the XP/NP line is one of the more confounded ones. That is the one I'd like REAL data on. I trust that the Fram TG and FU are 99% or darn close to it. I find the Wix/NG certainly plausible at 95%. But the XP/NP simply astounds me at it's lack of performance. And I, for one, would like the TRUTH, even if Wix is unwilling to provide it.


Come on, guys. There has got to be enough purchasing power here to make this happen. Or, are we just a bunch of whiners who like to stay on the porch? Know what else is ironic? That MANY folks here will pay for "cheap insurance" to run syns and super premium filters for 5k mile OCIs, but would never be willing to pay $20 into a collective fund to actually find out real data. They'd rather pay money (waste) to make themselves feel good, than spend money for real information that would contribute to the greater good of knowledge base.

I will offer to research and help the group/board select a test lab.


If we don't do this, then my suggestion is to never bring this XP efficiency question up again. If we are unwilling to find the real truth on our own, then we are only left with the dribble Wix spouts.



Simply stated:
Put up or shut up.
I'll supply the filters-I picked up a couple of NAPA Platinums (same as the XP) for the Cummins when they were on sale-and I'll throw in a Fram Ultra for the same application. I'm running the Fleetguard Stratapore Venturis on it, & I have enough of those to last longer than the Ram body likely will! If Dave can raise the money, I'll send them to him to be tested.
Unfortunately I don't have a white/regular WIX or NAPA Gold filter for my 5.9, but maybe someone has an extra, or I'll see if O'Reilly has one.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Is there a reputable third party place to have these tested Dave?



Sure; many. Ryco, Peders, and SWRI all come to mind. There are plenty of others.

What I suspect is that we'll not come up with the funds, despite having 50k members here. Even at a buck a head, we'll fall short because most here would prefer to argue their opinion than actually find the reality. We'd be lucky to cross the $100 mark in donations.


I contacted someone at the SWRI a few years ago, and it was like $15,000 to test 10 filters - not cheap. They test to ISO 4548-42.

sayjac - thanks for digging up that post I did in 2011 about the SWRI testing. You are the thread digger upper master.

Yes - they are all well past what we as individuals could afford. And SWRI is very expensive, but others not quite as high. That is why I suggested a collective, but it always goes no where ...

As for the "thread digger upper master", we need a little emoticon for that!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
As for the "thread digger upper master", we need a little emoticon for that!

LOL ... definitely.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
..sayjac - thanks for digging up that post I did in 2011 about the SWRI testing. You are the thread digger upper master.

No problem. Thanks for the compliment. It's really just a matter of using Google search features, some different key word tries and a little patience. And it doesn't hurt that I've read or participated in many of the threads on this board for awhile, so I know the content of what I'm looking for.

It's good thing to have when one wants or needs to substantiate their comments and thoughts.

If you come up with and emoticon for thread digger upper master, I could use it as my signature.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm thinking about calling Wix up on the phone.

What's the efficiency spec for the Fram Ultra again?

Wix XP is 50% at 20 microns?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm thinking about calling Wix up on the phone.

What's the efficiency spec for the Fram Ultra again?

Wix XP is 50% at 20 microns?


The Ultra is 99%+ filtration efficiency per "ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns." As discussed many times in this forum, that essentially means particles at 20 microns or larger.

Fram Ultra Info

Let us know what they say, but I pretty much know already what that will be.

 

[bullwinkle]

The question on the XP/Platinum is-how much better will it get over a long term OCI? Will the bigger pores fill in & improve efficiency? Not sure how to measure that.

 

[Nyogtha]

Well does the media employ only surface filtration, or depth filtration, or density graded depth filtration, or some combination of those?

That needs to be known as well since depth filtration is significantly different than just surface filtration, and can be tailored to have different levels of depth filtration (like the Fram Ultra media and Pennzoil Platinum media).

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm thinking about calling Wix up on the phone.



Good luck with that ...
Not that I am disrespecting you; it's Wix Customer Service I'm purposely disrespecting here. They suck.

Let me be clear; their products do not suck. I use and like their products. It is their incredibly inane and near antagonistic approach to Customer Service information sharing that sucks. No, really - it SUCKS! To be fair to them, it's not an approach that is unique to them. Many companies use a very limitied info-sharing approach.

But go ahead and try it. Sometimes you just have to experience the stupidity firsthand to believe how bad it is.

When I've called in the past (multiple times), I can hear the low-wage disinterested person typing my question into a search function on his/her keyboard, and then awaiting the canned answer back. They will regurgitate the boiler-plate, marketing-driven dribble right to you, and if you ask intelligent, pointed questions about real efficiency issues (such as beta ratings, ISO testing protocol, etc) they are flat stumped. It's not the employee's fault; they are not trained past the first level of keyboard slapping.

P.S. - it's no different if you email them ...

 

[dlundblad]

The most I have ever gotten out of WIX was that the Napa Silver is comparable to the MicroGard.

The telephone conversation wasn't very memorable.. The lady sounded like she just woke up and didn't want to be at work.

 

[cookiemonster]

I'd use the various grades of filters in this way:

Protec/NAPA Silver/Microguard -
Wix/NAPA Gold -
Wix XP/NAPA Platnium - 10,000 miles and expect it to have low-efficiency filtering

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Good luck with that ...
Not that I am disrespecting you; it's Wix Customer Service I'm purposely disrespecting here. They suck.


I just got off the phone with a lengthy discussion with Wix Technical Services. I told the nice lady on the phone that their Wix XP product is taking a beating because of it's efficiency rating. I also said that the efficiency rating doesn't bother me personally, but somebody from their company needs to join BITOG and answer some of these questions and accusations about their efficiency rating. I told her that BITOG is a huge forum with thousands of members and that internet chatter can make or break a product. She said she is forwarding my information to her supervisor and that she's fairly confident that they can get someone from Technical Services to join our forum. She also asked me to please not mention her name in this thread.

 

[Talkinghorse1]

A month or so ago I also had a discussion with Wix Tech Services over the efficiency rating on the XP filters. The guy confirmed that the 51334XP is 50% efficient at 20 microns and he explained how they are designed for extended service. So essentially they're trading efficiency for service life. He told me that if maximum efficiency was my objective, to stay with the 51334.

I've been a long time user & fairly large dealer of AMSOIL products and I use their Ea filters exclusively on my own vehicles. I usually recommend a Wix filter to customers who choose the XL oil or to those who don't want to spend the additional money on an AMSOIL filter. AMSOIL sells WIX, but not the XP's. I won't recommend the XP filters to my customers given the poor efficiency rating. If they want to extend their service intervals, I will recommend the AMSOIL filter...best of both worlds. And I agree, the Fram Ultra would also be a much better choice than the XP.

 

[Merkava_4]

I don't see how a filter can be 99% efficient at 20 microns without clogging up and going into bypass within 3000 miles. At least at 50% ... I got some room to collect dirt.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I also said that the efficiency rating doesn't bother me personally, but somebody from their company needs to join BITOG and answer some of these questions and accusations about their efficiency rating.


"Accusations" ... LOL. The efficiency rating is what WIX advertises, it's no "accusation" by anybody.

Accusation
: a claim that someone has done something wrong or illegal
: a charge that someone has committed a fault or crime

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I don't see how a filter can be 99% efficient at 20 microns without clogging up and going into bypass within 3000 miles. At least at 50% ... I got some room to collect dirt.


Why not call Fram Tech Dept [ Here ] and ask them how they can do up to 15K miles of use with the Ultra? Or call Purolator [ Here ] and ask the same of their full synthetic?

Of course, keep in mind if an engine is super sludged up and dirty that no filter will be able to go the distance it's rated for. I'm sure there is some "buffer" in the manufacturers' mileage use ratings because not every engine on the road is new and super clean inside. The filter manufacturer's are assuming that vehicles have been maintained properly, and not abused in the OCI maintenance.

 

[Nyogtha]

Depth filtration media is different from surface filtration media, and gradient density depth filtration media allows even more tailoring of the pore sizes and flow paths through the media.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Depth filtration media is different from surface filtration media, and gradient density depth filtration media allows even more tailoring of the pore sizes and flow paths through the media.
That's what I would like to know about the XP/Platinums-is it a depth media, or not? It would probably take an electron microscope to find out.