Wix/ Napa best oil Filters

[edward51956]

Last week, i went to my Napa Dealer and in talking I told him, I said I can't figure out the oil filter game. I've always bought the OEM filter i.e. AC Delco, Honda, Etc but from time to time and aftermarket filter. I run synthetic in everything including my power equipment.

He said it was easy, he walked around the counter and there he had about every filter made even the expensive ones but cut the outer shell showing the guts . Except for the wix/Napa, they all had a cheezy piece of sheet metal for a relief valve. The Napa/Wix had a spring. From there he proceeded to say that when the oil is cold the element goes into relief at a high rate of speed/frequency and the piece of sheet metal can fatigue where the spring does not. If it fatigues it stays in relief bypassing oil until it is removed or it can. Seems plausible. So I'm a convert.

I also found out the OEMS buy the filters from a bidder and delco or Honda does not make the filter but it is made to their spec.

 

[wings&wheels]

Did they have Mann (European origin) or Mahle? They are not available for all applications, but are probably some of the better if not best filters available. I say this having cut open many filters over the years.

None of the OEM's make their own filters that I am aware of, but there are occasionally slight differences between what the filter manufacturers sell the OEM's and what is available in the aftermarket. Depends on what the manufacturer specs.

 

[kschachn]

There is more than one way to construct a spring, as long as it works as designed that would hardly be a reason to reject a filter.

Filters are supposed to... filter. How well one does that is the primary concern.

Your discussion sounds typical where someone picks a "feature" of their particular brand and then tries to spin that into the one and only primary concern.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by kschachn
There is more than one way to construct a spring, as long as it works as designed that would hardly be a reason to reject a filter.

Filters are supposed to... filter. How well one does that is the primary concern.

Your discussion sounds typical where someone picks a "feature" of their particular brand and then tries to spin that into the one and only primary concern.

Totally agree.
Whether a leaf spring or coil spring, it is still a spring and is designed to a specific parameter, and their performance and longevity can be identical.
Plus the spring is not a relief valve, it is what keeps the filter element in place against the ADV (and in the case of filters with a combo valve, it does affect the bypass to an extent, but not because of the spring design).

Tell you what, bring in an Ecogard filter and ask how good the filter is, and when he says it is cheap china made junk, have him cut it open and guess what he will find, yup, a coil spring.
So by his reasoning, it must be good (and truthfully, the Ecogard is a good filter, but not because of the type of spring design).

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by edward51956


From there he proceeded to say that when the oil is cold the element goes into relief at a high rate of speed/frequency and the piece of sheet metal can fatigue where the spring does not. If it fatigues it stays in relief bypassing oil until it is removed or it can.


I can guarantee that the spring fatigues just as much, any metal will fatigue over use, the only difference is whether they are both made of quality metal or is one better than the other. (metal)

 

[krismoriah72]

Originally Posted by edward51956
Last week, i went to my Napa Dealer and in talking I told him, I said I can't figure out the oil filter game. I've always bought the OEM filter i.e. AC Delco, Honda, Etc but from time to time and aftermarket filter. I run synthetic in everything including my power equipment.

He said it was easy, he walked around the counter and there he had about every filter made even the expensive ones but cut the outer shell showing the guts . Except for the wix/Napa, they all had a cheezy piece of sheet metal for a relief valve. The Napa/Wix had a spring. From there he proceeded to say that when the oil is cold the element goes into relief at a high rate of speed/frequency and the piece of sheet metal can fatigue where the spring does not. If it fatigues it stays in relief bypassing oil until it is removed or it can. Seems plausible. So I'm a convert.

I also found out the OEMS buy the filters from a bidder and delco or Honda does not make the filter but it is made to their spec.


Well NAPA/WIX filters are made by MANN HUMMELL now.. The cheesy sheet metal reliefs do just fine. Wix usually looks built well but arent as efficient as some others (FRAM).

Not sure what you want to accomplish with the spring.. but all will filter oil... some filter smaller microns than others.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by edward51956
Last week, i went to my Napa Dealer and in talking I told him, I said I can't figure out the oil filter game. I've always bought the OEM filter i.e. AC Delco, Honda, Etc but from time to time and aftermarket filter. I run synthetic in everything including my power equipment.

He said it was easy, he walked around the counter and there he had about every filter made even the expensive ones but cut the outer shell showing the guts . Except for the wix/Napa, they all had a cheezy piece of sheet metal for a relief valve. The Napa/Wix had a spring. From there he proceeded to say that when the oil is cold the element goes into relief at a high rate of speed/frequency and the piece of sheet metal can fatigue where the spring does not. If it fatigues it stays in relief bypassing oil until it is removed or it can. Seems plausible. So I'm a convert.

I also found out the OEMS buy the filters from a bidder and delco or Honda does not make the filter but it is made to their spec.


You believed his talking points. He did his marketing job well then.

A NAPA Gold or Platinum are both good filters.

 

[compratio10_5]

The Napa dealer is telling a half truth. The big coil spring in Wix filters compresses the filter media against the anti-drain back valve and has nothing to do with the bypass valve as blupupher noted. However it is a fact that leaf springs (even a single leaf as in some oil filters) have more internal friction than a coil spring because the ends have to slide when the leaf spring is compressed. So a coil spring theoretically will provide a more consistent compression force with changing temperatures and flow rates. Now what I would really like to know is how these filters perform with dynamic conditions in a real engine. These conditions are not duplicated in standard steady state filter efficiency tests.

 

[kschachn]

Bypass pressure is tested as part of ISO 4548-12?

 

[Job]

The leaf spring holds the cartridge from moving side to side much more, it seems to me. So there are pluses and minuses on each.

 

[geeman789]

One leaf spring / by-pass valve ... out of a Fram Racing HP-17 filter. This a proven design, simple and reliable. Is it better or worse than a coil spring ? I think it is more of a pass / fail type of deal. Either it works, or it doesn't. And these seem to work just fine. Just like a coil spring does.

 

[Gebo]

It does seem the more "higher quality" oil filters utilize a spring. I like the looks of a spring as well. However, I have no basis to say the spring is better than the sheet metal one. I just buy OEM and rested my brain.

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by Donald
Originally Posted by edward51956
Last week, i went to my Napa Dealer and in talking I told him, I said I can't figure out the oil filter game. I've always bought the OEM filter i.e. AC Delco, Honda, Etc but from time to time and aftermarket filter. I run synthetic in everything including my power equipment.

He said it was easy, he walked around the counter and there he had about every filter made even the expensive ones but cut the outer shell showing the guts . Except for the wix/Napa, they all had a cheezy piece of sheet metal for a relief valve. The Napa/Wix had a spring. From there he proceeded to say that when the oil is cold the element goes into relief at a high rate of speed/frequency and the piece of sheet metal can fatigue where the spring does not. If it fatigues it stays in relief bypassing oil until it is removed or it can. Seems plausible. So I'm a convert.

I also found out the OEMS buy the filters from a bidder and delco or Honda does not make the filter but it is made to their spec.


You believed his talking points. He did his marketing job well then.

A NAPA Gold or Platinum are both good filters.


My question is how long did it take for the OP to get the hook out of their mouth?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yeah, worker at NAPA wasn't really a filter expert based on what he said.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by krismoriah72
... some filter smaller microns than others.
All microns are exactly the same size, by definition.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Technically speaking, from a defined unit of length.

 

[gotnogunk]

I like the discussion, agree with most. After years on this site, I still see a lack of comparison between filter medium . Why is one better than the others?? The filter paper is what filters the oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by gotnogunk
I like the discussion, agree with most. After years on this site, I still see a lack of comparison between filter medium . Why is one better than the others?? The filter paper is what filters the oil.


Well, everyone here thinks what makes one filter better than another is different. Some like the construction regardless of efficiency, some like efficiency as long as the construction is adequate. Others are somewhere in between. Some people like buying the cheapest filter they can find, regardless of efficiency or construction.

Yes the media is what filters the oil ... and therefore IMO buying a filter that does best what it's supposed to do - filter the oil - is my filter goal.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by gotnogunk
... I still see a lack of comparison between filter medium . Why is one better than the others?? The filter paper is what filters the oil.
Relatedly, it would be interesting to know more about where filter media comes from. Do the major filter manufacturers make their own, or have it custom made, or do they all buy stock materials from the same suppliers? That said, two filters made using the identical grade of media could have different claimed efficiency scores.

A couple of filters in my inventory, of different brands, have media that appears identical under low magnification. One claims considerably higher efficiency than the other one.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by gotnogunk
... I still see a lack of comparison between filter medium . Why is one better than the others?? The filter paper is what filters the oil.
Relatedly, it would be interesting to know more about where filter media comes from. Do the major filter manufacturers make their own, or have it custom made, or do they all buy stock materials from the same suppliers? That said, two filters made using the identical grade of media could have different claimed efficiency scores.

A couple of filters in my inventory, of different brands, have media that appears identical under low magnification. One claims considerably higher efficiency than the other one.


Marketing ... and more marketing. EVERY filter can be 99 % efficient, at some particle size level. Put the 99% IN REALLY BIG LETTERS, and put the particle size in the really small print. Most consumers won't know the difference.