Wilmette homeowner charged for protecting his family (Al, 2nd's already gone)

jason07-1zzfe · Jan 8, 2004

So much for the 'consipiracy'. And you think the people forecasting it are nuts? It's already happening.

http://www.wbbm780.com/asp/ViewMoreDetails.asp?ID=32752

You should have heard the sound bites from this a-hole police chief. What a complete idiot. There were more gems than the quotes in this report....he also said that you should just lock your bedroom door and call the police.
Yeah thats comforting.

Gee you think you are having increased break-ins in the community because burgulars know that no one should have guns!!!!

And how in the #$%@ does town/city laws override the US constitution??

The only mistake this homeowner made was not killing this dirtbag that broke in. Now he'll probably face charges from him too, since he'll have backup from these other charges against homeowner.

Save your family and have your life torn upside-down by the gov't.

Dan4510 · Jan 8, 2004

If you think that's crazy, England has gone farther down this road.

A man used a piece of firewood to bash a burgler. He was prosectured, put in jail. The burgler was allowed to sue him, win a judgement and go free.

Dan

[ January 09, 2004, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

MRC01 · Jan 8, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
MRC, breaking into someone's house is enough of a threat to me.

I agree, but the criminal justice system is based on what the laws says, not what we believe is right. Whether we like it or not, whether we think it fair or not, we must understand what the laws says and learn how to deal with it. It's better to be prepared in advance, than to lament after the fact how you got screwed by unfair laws.

Any good firearms training class teaches people to:

1. Always have the factory owners manual for your gun. You don't want the prosecuting attorney saying, "You don't even have the users manual for your deadly weapon?"

2. Shoot your gun on a regular basis and have the records to prove it. You don't want the prosecuting attorney saying, "You kept a lethal weapon and did not maintain basic skills?"

3. Always use fresh factory ammunition (no reloads). You don't want the prosecuting attorney to say, "You loaded that bullet specifically to take my client's life, didn't you?"

4. Always call 911 (or at least attempt to) before firing your gun. You don't want the prosecuting attorney to say, "You took the law into your own hands, without even attempting to contact the authorities."

5. Always have at least $1,000,000 personal liability insurance, usually through your homeowner's policy.

6. Always know and understand what the law in your local area has to say about the lawful use of deadly force.

There are several other basic points; I mention these only because they are so often overlooked.

Dan4510 · Jan 8, 2004

If you really want to find out about the legal limits of self defense, one of the best books every written was

"in the gravestest extreme" by massad ayoob.

He owns lethal force institute which is acknowledged to be one of the best places to train for lethal force encounters there is on the planet.

Dan

garyb80 · Jan 8, 2004

I loved a quote from Massad Ayoob. This might not be exact but it goes something like, "Once someone is not safe in their own home, there is no where else to go."
If a someone breaks into my home, that sucker is fair game. I am going to assume that he means to do harm to my family and I will take appropriate action to neutralize the threat. If it means going to prison, so be it. Here in Texas though, that's not likely.

MRC01 · Jan 8, 2004

The LFI classes are very good but I think Gunsite in Paulden AZ is even better.

JohnnyO · Jan 8, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
A man shot a car burgler attempting to break into his car in an apartment parking lot while I was living in Dallas. No investigation, no charges, just picked the body up and took it to the coroner. Local news reporters were screaming about it, but didnt change it.

Works for me.

GSV · Jan 8, 2004

Where you live has a lot to do with how much crap you'll have to put up with.

The Western US is a lot more friendly to a citizen ventilating a dirtbag. The left coast excluded of course.

Al · Jan 8, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by GSV:
citizen ventilating a dirtbag.

Hahahahahaha..good one.

MRC01 · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by GSV:
Where you live has a lot to do with how much crap you'll have to put up with.

The Western US is a lot more friendly to a citizen ventilating a dirtbag. The left coast excluded of course.

A couple months ago my wife woke up in the night hearing a noise in the back yard. She wakes me up, I get my flashlight and gun look out (with no flashlight) and by the light of the moon I see a guy walking around back there. She calls 911 while I turn on the outdoor light. Guy ran away as soon as the light came on. The lady on 911 said, "Remember you can't shoot him in the back yard, you have to wait until he tries to enter your house."

Funny stuff. The lady on 911 was glad we were armed & ready to defend, just wanted to make sure we didn't pop him prematurely. And that here in the SF Bay Area!

But gun supportive local police aside, I must admit the gun laws in this state suck and that is one of the reasons we're moving to WA.

Scotto · Jan 9, 2004

MRC01,

Let me be the first to say: Welcome to Washington State(when you get here, of course)

labman · Jan 9, 2004

I am glad I don't live in Illinois. From what I hear, it is much too regulated, one of the worst West of the Applachians.

wulimaster · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Al:
Well..he did not register his weapon as required. He violated the law. Also he didn't call 911. Sorry-I just see no problem with registering your weapon just like you register for a CCW or when you Purchase a weapon.

Al, you missed the part about it being illegal to own a handgun in his town. He let his registration lapse before the ban went into effect. Perhaps he didn't want it confiscated.

MRC01 · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Scotto:
MRC01,
Let me be the first to say: Welcome to Washington State(when you get here, of course)

Thanks. Just a few weeks away now...

Shannow · Jan 9, 2004

Break and Enter while the family are still at home must be one of the scariest things that can happen to a person (two people at work have had this happen, and been fronted with balaclavas and knives at 3AM in their own houses.....it really messed them up as people).

Problem with calling the authorities is that it is not their responsibility to protect you and your family. That's been determined in court. If they don't turn up, and you get hurt, then you get squat.

Since the new Australian gun laws, crimes committed against people, and particularly in their own homes has increased out of sight. Even if you have a firearm (never for self defence), the "safe storage" requirements ensure that you will never got them out in a hurry.

Recently, Australians were given the right to use extreme force to remove a threat inside their home, including firearms if necessary.

So, when I hear a noise, I am entitiled to find the keys to the safe (that must be hidden from the spouse, as if she knows where the keys are, you have left the gun in the control of an unlicenced person). Unlock the three padlocks to open the safe. Remove firearm. Find the Key to the ammo/bolt safe, open this, retrieve the bolt, reassemble the firearm, and load.

If the Police even suspect that you had an unsecured firearm (or your spouse knows where the keys are), you are history.

MRC01 · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Shannow:
So, when I hear a noise, I am entitiled to find the keys to the safe (that must be hidden from the spouse, as if she knows where the keys are, you have left the gun in the control of an unlicenced person). Unlock the three padlocks to open the safe. Remove firearm. Find the Key to the ammo/bolt safe, open this, retrieve the bolt, reassemble the firearm, and load.

Time to get a handgun safe box with a unicam simplex lock. Secure, strong, reliable, and can be opened in 3 seconds by feel in the dark if you know the combination.

The CCW "experiment" here in the USA shows that crime rates drop when law abiding people have and carry guns. Maybe Australia will eventually learn from this.

MRC01 · Jan 9, 2004

Hard to determine whether it was a lawful shoot. The article doesn't mention whether the burgular was armed or whether he threatened the family. The homeowner didn't call 911, which he should have done even if he used a gun lawfully for self defense.

Often, if you shoot a criminal in your home at night, the shooting is considered a priori justified and the onus of proof on the DA to prove otherwise. If this state didn't have such laws, then I can see why burgulars are breaking into people's houses.

Dan4510 · Jan 9, 2004

There are extremes the other way that can be troubling. Colorado passed a law several years ago that protected property owners when they shot anyone on their property. Turned out to be the perfect opportunity to get someone you didnt like and get away with it. Called the make-my-day law.

Texas, and this is a holdover from frontier days, has a law that you can shoot anyone under cover of the night that is attempting to steal your property. A man shot a car burgler attempting to break into his car in an apartment parking lot while I was living in Dallas. No investigation, no charges, just picked the body up and took it to the coroner. Local news reporters were screaming about it, but didnt change it.

Dan

Doug C · Jan 9, 2004

That's why I live in Colorado. "Go ahead, make my day".

Cheers, Doug

jason07-1zzfe · Jan 9, 2004

MRC, breaking into someone's house is enough of a threat to me.
Is he supposed to wait until the intruder pulls a gun too and then it's Wild West Shoot-out time. Better hope you are quicker draw and a better shot! I don't think so! I think the homeowner deserves an advantage!

Actually on another radio station they said the homeowner went downstairs to inspect after hearing noise and then found intruder. The intruder saw him with gun yet did not flee! This is a large threat to me!

They said the intruder was coming toward the homeowner and that's when he was shot.

Either way, it's irrelevant to me. What is relevant that someone broke into his house. Period.

I'm not sure what IL's laws are in regard to what you mentioned. I guess I should find out, since I live here. I agree that it would be no surprise the events occuring if they do not have that. The town ordinance in Wilmette prohibiting homeowners from owning a handgun does not help either!

[ January 09, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]

Wilmette homeowner charged for protecting his family (Al, 2nd's already gone)

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