Will TW3 two cycle marine oil disappear?

[Snagglefoot]

Here is the Snowmobile two stroke oil for the E-Tec.

https://ski-doo-shop.brp.com/ca/en/2t-etec-synthetic-oil-2t-e-tec-synthetic-oil.html

 

[Snagglefoot]

In the 4 four stroke line up for Skip-doo check out the 900 Ace Turbo R which makes 180 HP but is heavier and is not the preference for mountain machines.

https://www.brp-world.com/int/en/brands/ski-doo/experience/Rotax-Engines.html

 

[Snagglefoot]

I figured. Sno mobiles are called ski doos up north and jet skis are sea doos. I doubt they make 2 stroke snowmobiles anymore though. Probably 300hp 4 stroke snowmobiles just like the jet skis lol

You brought up the interesting topic. The Sea-doos have 300 + HP Turbo 3 cylinder water cooled engines but the snowmobiles tend to settle in at 180 plus or minus HP. I believe the reason is that the impellors on the Sea-doos have almost no HP limit but the snowmobiles have to transfer the power to the track with a centrifugal clutch to power a track on rollers. The 800 turbo E-Tec equipped sleds do more than 100 mph on a flat surface like a lake, so although there are folks out there who compete for the fastest lake speed, crashing a snowmobile at those speeds can be deadly. Tumbling off a sea-doo on the other hand can be fun. So AFAIK there are no stock 300 HP snowmobiles.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The current world record for a snowmobile is 172 mph achieved on a lake in Ontario.

 

[thastinger]

You brought up the interesting topic. The Sea-doos have 300 + HP Turbo 3 cylinder water cooled engines but the snowmobiles tend to settle in at 180 plus or minus HP. I believe the reason is that the impellors on the Sea-doos have almost no HP limit but the snowmobiles have to transfer the power to the track with a centrifugal clutch to power a track on rollers. The 800 turbo E-Tec equipped sleds do more than 100 mph on a flat surface like a lake, so although there are folks out there who compete for the fastest lake speed, crashing a snowmobile at those speeds can be deadly. Tumbling off a sea-doo on the other hand can be fun. So AFAIK there are no stock 300 HP snowmobiles.

All of the big 3 PWC makers top models have a stock top speed of 67-69 MPH. Our 2 older skies top out at 56 and that is plenty fast. The water around us is rarely smooth enough to pin the throttles and hold them there for a top speed blast of more distance than a mile or so. I wouldn't classify hitting the water at 65+ to be fun.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here is another rating for synthetic 2 stroke motor oil. It’s JASO FC and is common with high performance snow mobile motor oils.

 

[LouC]

The only OPE I have that is specified to get the TCW-III is my 2 stroke Toro (Suzuki) snowblower, all the rest gets the air-cooled (TC) 2 stroke oil. Apparently, this is recommended by Toro because it is ashless and results in less deposits in the slower revving (3600 rpm) snow blower 2 strokes run in low outside temps. Blowers, weed wackers and hedge trimmers can run up to 9,000 rpm in normal use, so they need the air-cooled spec oil. However, in some of their literature Toro indicated that the 2 stroke snow blowers could be run on TC air cooled spec oil if TCW-III wasn't available. I guess you might see an increase in deposits, or have to clean the exhaust port more often, I checked mine a few years back (running full syn TCW-III) and it was really clean. So maybe there's something to this.....

 

[Japanese]

I figured. Sno mobiles are called ski doos up north and jet skis are sea doos. I doubt they make 2 stroke snowmobiles anymore though.

2-stroke oils for marine and snowmobiles are identical, if not the same.
Their main property is low viscosity low temp. flow.

The 2-stroke oils for road racing and dirt bikes are completely different, those are pretty thick and not oil injection friendly.

 

[4wd]

https://www.nmma.org/certification/oil/tc-w3

 

[Bwalker]

2-stroke oils for marine and snowmobiles are identical, if not the same.
Their main property is low viscosity low temp. flow.

The 2-stroke oils for road racing and dirt bikes are completely different, those are pretty thick and not oil injection friendly.

This isn't true.
Often times Snowmobile oils are JASO FC/FD type oils and marine oils are TCW3. Its not technically possible for one oil to meet both of these as their chemistries are completely different.
As for pre mix type oils for road racing and dirt bikes. These are almost exclusively JASO FC/FD type oils. Many are now offered in injection oil viscosity as the newer KTM and Husqvarna bikes have oil injection.

 

[Japanese]

This isn't true.
Often times Snowmobile oils are JASO FC/FD type oils and marine oils are TCW3. Its not technically possible for one oil to meet both of these as their chemistries are completely different.
As for pre mix type oils for road racing and dirt bikes. These are almost exclusively JASO FC/FD type oils. Many are now offered in injection oil viscosity as the newer KTM and Husqvarna bikes have oil injection.

I was talking about viscosity, not certifications.

Also, true road racing and off road racing oils are usually not JASO certified for obvious reasons and are not injection friendly because those bikes always use pre-mix.

 

[Bwalker]

I was talking about viscosity, not certifications.

Also, true road racing and off road racing oils are usually not JASO certified for obvious reasons and are not injection friendly because those bikes always use pre-mix.

Yes, injection oils are typically of similar viscosities. Some premix oils are low viscosity too.

I didn't say certified. I said type BTW. IE they are low ash oils.

 

[Japanese]

Yes, injection oils are typically of similar viscosities. Some premix oils are low viscosity too.

Injection oils have viscosity of SAE 30 oil or lower. Any oil with viscosity over 12 cSt at 100*C (SAE 40) is not injection friendly.
I have researched that.

That's what I wanted to say in my previous post. Also oils over SAE 30 viscosity don't mix well with gasoline (pre mix) and also don't flow well (oil injection) below certain temps.

 

[Bwalker]

Injection oils have viscosity of SAE 30 oil or lower. Any oil with viscosity over 12 cSt at 100*C (SAE 40) is not injection friendly.
I have researched that.

That's what I wanted to say in my previous post. Also oils over SAE 30 viscosity don't mix well with gasoline (pre mix) and also don't flow well (oil injection) below certain temps.

You are making some blanket statements on that last bit. Most mix just fine as they are designed to.

 

[Japanese]

You are making some blanket statements on that last bit. Most mix just fine as they are designed to.

I didn't say that. I didn't say that people should decide what oil is good for oil injection or not.

I said that I was looking at oils' PDS and those suitable for oil injection (the manufacturer states that on their label, not me or you) are not thicker than SAE 30 grade. I can post on here various oils' PDS to look at, so no - it's not a blanket statement.
You couldn't understand what I was trying to say.

 

[Bwalker]

I didn't say that. I didn't say that people should decide what oil is good for oil injection or not.

I said that I was looking at oils' PDS and those suitable for oil injection (the manufacturer states that on their label, not me or you) are not thicker than SAE 30 grade. I can post on here various oils' PDS to look at, so no - it's not a blanket statement.
You couldn't understand what I was trying to say.

You stated the following.
"Also oils over SAE 30 viscosity don't mix well with gasoline (pre mix) and also don't flow well (oil injection) below certain temps."
I can tell you for a fact that some SAE 50w pre mix just fine.
I can also tell you that I have personally ran non injection oils in snowmobiles.
So yes, you are making blanket statements.

 

[Japanese]

I can also tell you that I have personally ran non injection oils in snowmobiles.
So yes, you are making blanket statements.

It's your choice to run whatever oil you want in your machines with any consequences out of that. I've seen that on YouTube channels - people run non-injection oil in oil injection motorcycles.

I personally would not run non-injection oil in an oil-injected machine.

 

[Bwalker]

It's your choice to run whatever oil you want in your machines with any consequences out of that. I've seen that on YouTube channels - people run non-injection oil in oil injection motorcycles.

I personally would not run non-injection oil in an oil injection machine.

You seen it on YouTube so it must be true!
You are doing the typical keyboard warrior thing. Speculating without much doing.
Then on top of that you are giving advice on all this "knowledge" you gained on via the keyboard.
Just stop, you're making yourself look foolish.

The fact of the matter is what I have told you is true and I've been messing around with two strokes far more expensive than a weed whip for over 30 years. But I've also messed with plenty of outdoor power equipment too. In addition I refine oil for a living and am running a fractionator while I type this.
What are your qualifications?

 

[Japanese]

You seen it on YouTube so it must be true!
You are doing the typical keyboard warrior thing. Speculating without much doing.

I don't speculate. I don't advice people to run non-injection oil in their oil-injected machines and to follow manufacturer's label and recommendations. And also explained why is that.

But I've also messed with plenty of outdoor power equipment too. In addition I refine oil for a living and am running a fractionator while I type this.

What are your qualifications?

Good for you. As I said - it's up to you to experiment with any oil and any machine of yours.

My qualifications are - I always read PDS and follow manufacturer's recommendations because they know their product the best and have extensively tested it.

Whatever you are refining or running it doesn't make you more credible than companies with over 100 years experience.
But you can argue about their products, labels, and recommendation any time.

May we see any PDS of oils you've worked on?

 

[Bwalker]

I don't speculate. I don't advice people to run non-injection oil in their oil-injected machines and to follow manufacturer's label and recommendations. And also explained why is that.


Good for you. As I said - it's up to you to experiment with any oil and any machine of yours.

My qualifications are - I always read PDS and follow manufacturer's recommendations because they know their product the best and have extensively tested it.

Whatever you are refining or running it doesn't make you more credible than companies with over 100 years experience.
But you can argue about their products, labels, and recommendation any time.

May we see any PDS of oils you've worked on?

So like I said keyboard warrior. Which is fine.
Just try to refrain from making ridiculous blanket statements like "oils over 30w mix poorly".
And keep in mind that 30w, 40w etc is a range. Maxima K2 is a pre mix oil but its viscosity at 100c is only 13.6 cst. It runs just fine in injection systems in warm weather and probably in cold weather too although I've not tested it. Base oils matters too. Ester based thicken much less in cold weather. So its possible to have a ester based premix oil thats thinner at 20 degrees than a conventional injector oil.