Really why? Was the vehicle built around a specific battery pack? If the individual cells can be replaced with newer denser cells I don't see the issue.
Wife thinks next vehicle should be an EV.
- Thread starter AZjeff
- Start date
They always are. The software calibration is tied to the behavior of a specific battery pack arrangement. Same with the rest of the powertrain.
I was about to say that. Some might be able to handle it, but other softwares might not. It's really a crapshoot without serious testing.
There should be a way to override that or software to reprogram that. Point being a few years ago a drift team crammed a Ferrari V8 into a Subaru brz. It shouldn't have worked but with piggybacking and software it did, especially with two very different makes and models.
Some may. It's definitely a case by case basis. On a much smaller scale I can change the 12V battery type on my GTI and tell the system what the battery specs are to retune the battery management system. It's probably possible on many cars. It's probably not very easy to get this info though. Tesla used to do many battery sizes of the same model and I'm sure this can be switched in the background. There was(maybe still is) a Tesla used dealer that would sell you a car with the specs you wanted. You could take an older Tesla Model S 75kW and put the 100kW battery in it on purchase. Either the car recognizes the new pack or they're able to program them, but it apparently works.
We're still in the early days of this. We've dealt with proprietary programming with ICE cars and some have work arounds for modifications or parts replacements. I don't think this will be any different over time. Before you know it we'll have aftermarket EV mods I'm sure.
My wife's vehicle could be an ev because it doesn't go on long trips (currently it's a Hyundai and I was worried about the engine seizing - and it did at 94k). She also doesn't park in the garage because I put my work truck in there and clean her car off when needed in the winter.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Not considering a car. If we were there are few cars lower on the list of cars I wouldn’t own than a fiat 500, ICE or EV. Thanks.
I would be surprised if owners were able to get into the firmware that runs the vehicle. Modifying source code is serious business.
The proper way involves a rigorous test process; even that is no guarantee of success.
If you mean the Tesla team, then perhaps it makes good sense. My understanding is some designs, such as Tesla and Porsche Taycan, used sealed battery packs that are structural, so that is another concern.
The 500 Abarths are pocket rockets, tiny yes but a hoot to drive. The 500e has 450 lb ft of torque on a very lightweight vehicle. The gotcha is that the 500e was only sold in a few select markets, and Colorado wasn't one. From my dealings there is one guy (not making this up) in Colorado. Luigi who is from Rome that has the experience to work on them. He works at the Fiat Dealership off of Havana.
Wife thinks next vehicle should be an EV
In my case, the 2009 F150 is her daily driver, and an EV version would work perfectly, right up until it was road trip time.
So, my convertible sports car would be the better EV choice "if" we were to do that. But then, I have to ask, where is the benefit in that? I drive the sports car so few miles.
Three pages of posts, but I don’t see why.
Your wife thinks your next vehicle, which won’t be a car, should be an EV.
Why? What reason did she give?
If she is up for barely used they are great bargains and if she does not like easy to dump off without much loss.
My wife wants one too and we are looking to share one. We keep her ICE compact SUV.
My wife wants one too and we are looking to share one. We keep her ICE compact SUV.
JHZR2
Staff member
I’d probably give it a little more than 100 miles, but the “never” part is key. The convenience and cost arguments fall apart after that.
When I can find an EV that matches the range of my hybrid, like 600-700 miles call it… then I’ll consider.
JHZR2
Staff member
Is this the old “cars lose 50% of their value when they leave the lot”, or is there a bona fide depreciation issue?
Im holding out for @JeffKeryk to sell me his model 3 for $10k cash, so I can take a cross country car trip…
Welcome to the dark side!
Any kind of software/hardware pairing is up to the manufacturer. It could be absolutely fixed to a specific configuration, but in my experience in electronics, a lot of systems are able to detect and/or reconfigure on the fly. One example would be memory configuration in a computer, where that’s configured in the boot sequence. That gives the flexibility to populate memory slots or to deal with failures. Even boards with fixed memory can deal with failures where they configure with what’s working.
With a battery pack, battery management is going to have to deal with cell failures. Not sure exactly how it deals with a swap with a third party pack or a rebuilt pack. Obviously the manufacturer has done its own testing with its own rebuilt packs in order to use those for warranty replacements. But there could be a specific unpublished battery reset procedure.
They have a 10 year lifespan compression tank that either need recertify or replacement, and it cost almost as much as a BEV battery. The refueling depending on your location can be stuck behind a fleet of bus or garbage truck, in 2024 it is even harder to refuel a CNG passenger car than a passenger BEV.
So no, that's no longer a good option when BEV is already "better".
In theory you can swap cell all you want, but in practice they aren't done because 1) labor cost is something you can't recoup in a high cost of living area. It may be worth doing in Mongolia but not in California, don't forget just because you can DIY doesn't mean it is free. It is like saying you know how to replace piston rings and therefore certain cars have no engine problem and is worth keeping for 300k miles. 2) The R&D economy of scale if you buy a whole pack developed from a manufacturer already testing things to work and last. If you try to swap something in, it may work, but either they were never tested to the original manufacturer's level or they have to spend a lot of money to test and will never sell in the volume original manufacturer did. You have to roll your dice if you are swapping old cells, and you may get lucky, vs you can pay more and don't have to roll your dice and get a new pack from manufacturer.
In the end, it might be better to trade in when a battery pack is aging and let someone in cheaper cost of living location "recondition" it, or retire the vehicle in a lower stress usage (like shipping a Nissan Leaf to Puerto Rico or Africa to be used for grocery getting instead of daily 80 mile commute in LA area).
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
We have 2 vehicles, 2021 GMC Sierra HD truck and 02 Jeep Wrangler. Jeep is daily around town driver and offroad exploring ride. Truck tows the travel trailer and is used if going somewhere out of town. We're retired and most trips are under 25 miles round trip. Sometime in the next couple of years we'll tire of the lifted Jeep and/or probably decide we're done with month long + travel trips with the trailer so one of them won't be needed or wanted. Will still want to go on back roads exploring or to get to trailheads etc. An EV/HEV/PHEV car... Prius, Camry, Fiat 500, whatever isn't in the conversation. There are also 2- 50 lb dogs involved and likely always will be. The why of the post is to get other perspectives and surprisingly it's gone 3 pages with some interesting thoughts and it hasn't gone off the rails.
You love them and that's great. Zero interest in a tiny pocket rocket car here.
Secondary uses like home energy storage.
