Why The Sudden Switch To Fram Ultra Are They Good?
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Some Toyotas, for one. No end cap at all.
Originally Posted By: webfors
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I have yet to see an explanation on why cardboard is OK for filter media but not OK as an endcap solution. Ok, neither is cardboard, they are both fiberboard but it's the same material!
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I have yet to see an explanation on why cardboard is OK for filter media but not OK as an endcap solution. Ok, neither is cardboard, they are both fiberboard but it's the same material!
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Some Toyotas, for one. No end cap at all.
I have used many of the Toyota oil filters without the end cap and have never seen a problem with any on them after they were in service for six months. They are made by Denso and look to be a quality product. I know, I know, their filtration efficiency isn't the best, but I think Toyota engineers know what they are doing and don't think there is any purpose in trying to out engineer them. Couldn't if I tried.Like the BITOG forum. Lots of good information to be had here. Regards to you all. Just finished cleaning up my driveway, The sun is out but the wind is up and 23F seems a lot colder. Now if I could just get my Transition lense to lighten up.
Some Toyotas, for one. No end cap at all.
I have used many of the Toyota oil filters without the end cap and have never seen a problem with any on them after they were in service for six months. They are made by Denso and look to be a quality product. I know, I know, their filtration efficiency isn't the best, but I think Toyota engineers know what they are doing and don't think there is any purpose in trying to out engineer them. Couldn't if I tried.Like the BITOG forum. Lots of good information to be had here. Regards to you all. Just finished cleaning up my driveway, The sun is out but the wind is up and 23F seems a lot colder. Now if I could just get my Transition lense to lighten up.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: LX289
That is why i don't use Fram Garbage PERIOD. I don't like the fact of cardboard end caps.
Not directed at you and I freely admit that I do not use the FRAM ExtraGuard, but as a general note, there are plenty of OEMs that use NOTHING as end caps (only glue); why are those filters not beat up on like the EG?
I knew that OEM's used that too. Kinda why i stayed away from stuff like that. Whoever makes JD oil filters i don't use them because of that same reason.
Originally Posted By: LX289
That is why i don't use Fram Garbage PERIOD. I don't like the fact of cardboard end caps.
Not directed at you and I freely admit that I do not use the FRAM ExtraGuard, but as a general note, there are plenty of OEMs that use NOTHING as end caps (only glue); why are those filters not beat up on like the EG?
I knew that OEM's used that too. Kinda why i stayed away from stuff like that. Whoever makes JD oil filters i don't use them because of that same reason.
Originally Posted By: webfors
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I don't agree. End cap material is very key to a good filter along with good pleating. Most filters have a metal end cap and it has been proven to be the best end cap. Go look at cut open filters and see for yourself.
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I don't agree. End cap material is very key to a good filter along with good pleating. Most filters have a metal end cap and it has been proven to be the best end cap. Go look at cut open filters and see for yourself.
Originally Posted By: LX289
Originally Posted By: webfors
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I don't agree. End cap material is very key to a good filter along with good pleating. Most filters have a metal end cap and it has been proven to be the best end cap. Go look at cut open filters and see for yourself.
I have, for 9 years. I've cut open dozens myself. Failing a design because of one factor is silly.
What about toyota filters? No end caps at all? Are they even *worse*? What about e-cores with "felt" end caps?
What about metal to metal sealing of leaf springs or bypass valves? Does that not cause any concern just because "hey it's metal man"
Originally Posted By: webfors
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I don't agree. End cap material is very key to a good filter along with good pleating. Most filters have a metal end cap and it has been proven to be the best end cap. Go look at cut open filters and see for yourself.
I have, for 9 years. I've cut open dozens myself. Failing a design because of one factor is silly.
What about toyota filters? No end caps at all? Are they even *worse*? What about e-cores with "felt" end caps?
What about metal to metal sealing of leaf springs or bypass valves? Does that not cause any concern just because "hey it's metal man"
Originally Posted By: LX289
Originally Posted By: webfors
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I don't agree. End cap material is very key to a good filter along with good pleating. Most filters have a metal end cap and it has been proven to be the best end cap. Go look at cut open filters and see for yourself.
This thread is a discuss of the Fram Ultra which use metal end caps so you guys have gotten way off topic as usual.
Originally Posted By: webfors
The "cardboard endcaps" argument is a ridiculous one based in fantasy and bias.
I care more about tight, straight and even pleating than I do about the end cap material.
I don't agree. End cap material is very key to a good filter along with good pleating. Most filters have a metal end cap and it has been proven to be the best end cap. Go look at cut open filters and see for yourself.
This thread is a discuss of the Fram Ultra which use metal end caps so you guys have gotten way off topic as usual.
you pay WAY to much for filters!
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
you pay WAY to much for filters!
I think HTSS_TR summed it up quite well on another thread:
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
$8-10 for up to 15-20k miles of usage is less than a dollar per 1k miles. The fuel cost for that 1k miles can be more than $100 for many cars. If you think there is a better buy oil filter that can do 15-20k miles please post.
Now, if you use Fram Ultra for 5k miles then it isn't worth the money.
Like someone else posted a while back - I'm always amused when one person tells another how to spend their money and that they are spending too much of it on a certain item.
you pay WAY to much for filters!
I think HTSS_TR summed it up quite well on another thread:
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
$8-10 for up to 15-20k miles of usage is less than a dollar per 1k miles. The fuel cost for that 1k miles can be more than $100 for many cars. If you think there is a better buy oil filter that can do 15-20k miles please post.
Now, if you use Fram Ultra for 5k miles then it isn't worth the money.
Like someone else posted a while back - I'm always amused when one person tells another how to spend their money and that they are spending too much of it on a certain item.
The problem is not whether they use end caps or not!
The real problem is the end cap cardboard ending up in your engine as all the pressure go through them!
The real problem is the end cap cardboard ending up in your engine as all the pressure go through them!
Originally Posted By: Stewie
The problem is not whether they use end caps or not!
The real problem is the end cap cardboard ending up in your engine as all the pressure go through them!
Never seen one thread posted in the last 5 years that showed a Fram's fiber end cap breaking off material.
Have however seen SuperTech (no longer made) ecore filters with very thin fabric end caps come loose from the pleats, but never break off material that could go down into the engine.
The problem is not whether they use end caps or not!
The real problem is the end cap cardboard ending up in your engine as all the pressure go through them!
Never seen one thread posted in the last 5 years that showed a Fram's fiber end cap breaking off material.
Have however seen SuperTech (no longer made) ecore filters with very thin fabric end caps come loose from the pleats, but never break off material that could go down into the engine.
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Make it 3 changes per filter and you're set.
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Make it 3 changes per filter and you're set.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Make it 3 changes per filter and you're set.
On the most seldom used car, that would be nearly 3 years on the filter. Safe?
Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Make it 3 changes per filter and you're set.
On the most seldom used car, that would be nearly 3 years on the filter. Safe?
Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Make it 3 changes per filter and you're set.
On the most seldom used car, that would be nearly 3 years on the filter. Safe?
I'd probably do an oil changed ever 2 years (not 3) in that case.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
I've got one on all the cars I do changes for and plan on keeping them all on for double duty service. Two changes at 6K a piece.
Make it 3 changes per filter and you're set.
On the most seldom used car, that would be nearly 3 years on the filter. Safe?
I'd probably do an oil changed ever 2 years (not 3) in that case.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
What makes everyone think they are so good? I will tell you why I think they are so good...
1- Very efficient media. 99% at 20 microns and a stellar 80% efficient at 5 microns.
2- Good oil flow from the fully synthetic media.
3- Silicon ADBV.
4- They are built like tanks, metal end caps, sturdy canister, and wire backed media.
5- Capable of 15K miles OCI's.
6- Available at WM and Amazon for the low price of around $9.
Anything with a smaller filtration micron rating is going to have more pressure drop at a fixed filter size. Maybe it's a very small pressure drop and dosent matter. Has anyone measured it?
What makes everyone think they are so good? I will tell you why I think they are so good...
1- Very efficient media. 99% at 20 microns and a stellar 80% efficient at 5 microns.
2- Good oil flow from the fully synthetic media.
3- Silicon ADBV.
4- They are built like tanks, metal end caps, sturdy canister, and wire backed media.
5- Capable of 15K miles OCI's.
6- Available at WM and Amazon for the low price of around $9.
Anything with a smaller filtration micron rating is going to have more pressure drop at a fixed filter size. Maybe it's a very small pressure drop and dosent matter. Has anyone measured it?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: gregk24
What makes everyone think they are so good? I will tell you why I think they are so good...
1- Very efficient media. 99% at 20 microns and a stellar 80% efficient at 5 microns.
2- Good oil flow from the fully synthetic media.
3- Silicon ADBV.
4- They are built like tanks, metal end caps, sturdy canister, and wire backed media.
5- Capable of 15K miles OCI's.
6- Available at WM and Amazon for the low price of around $9.
Anything with a smaller filtration micron rating is going to have more pressure drop at a fixed filter size. Maybe it's a very small pressure drop and dosent matter. Has anyone measured it?
This is not necessarily true, only if comparing the same media.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
What makes everyone think they are so good? I will tell you why I think they are so good...
1- Very efficient media. 99% at 20 microns and a stellar 80% efficient at 5 microns.
2- Good oil flow from the fully synthetic media.
3- Silicon ADBV.
4- They are built like tanks, metal end caps, sturdy canister, and wire backed media.
5- Capable of 15K miles OCI's.
6- Available at WM and Amazon for the low price of around $9.
Anything with a smaller filtration micron rating is going to have more pressure drop at a fixed filter size. Maybe it's a very small pressure drop and dosent matter. Has anyone measured it?
This is not necessarily true, only if comparing the same media.
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: gregk24
What makes everyone think they are so good? I will tell you why I think they are so good...
1- Very efficient media. 99% at 20 microns and a stellar 80% efficient at 5 microns.
2- Good oil flow from the fully synthetic media.
3- Silicon ADBV.
4- They are built like tanks, metal end caps, sturdy canister, and wire backed media.
5- Capable of 15K miles OCI's.
6- Available at WM and Amazon for the low price of around $9.
Anything with a smaller filtration micron rating is going to have more pressure drop at a fixed filter size. Maybe it's a very small pressure drop and dosent matter. Has anyone measured it?
Full synthetic media typically has less pressure drop per square inch than cellulose media. You can have high flow and pretty low pressure drop if the right media and enough media is used, and still have very high filtration efficiency.
Here is the famous PureOne Flow vs PSID chart based on data from Purolator. A decently designed oil filter really doesn't have much pressure drop ... WAY less than the pressure drop across an engine's oiling system, which is typically 15 times more restrictive to flow than a typical oil filter.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
What makes everyone think they are so good? I will tell you why I think they are so good...
1- Very efficient media. 99% at 20 microns and a stellar 80% efficient at 5 microns.
2- Good oil flow from the fully synthetic media.
3- Silicon ADBV.
4- They are built like tanks, metal end caps, sturdy canister, and wire backed media.
5- Capable of 15K miles OCI's.
6- Available at WM and Amazon for the low price of around $9.
Anything with a smaller filtration micron rating is going to have more pressure drop at a fixed filter size. Maybe it's a very small pressure drop and dosent matter. Has anyone measured it?
Full synthetic media typically has less pressure drop per square inch than cellulose media. You can have high flow and pretty low pressure drop if the right media and enough media is used, and still have very high filtration efficiency.
Here is the famous PureOne Flow vs PSID chart based on data from Purolator. A decently designed oil filter really doesn't have much pressure drop ... WAY less than the pressure drop across an engine's oiling system, which is typically 15 times more restrictive to flow than a typical oil filter.
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