Why the move to Group III?
- Thread starter Mystic
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Sure, well, at least Castrol has indicated for years that the Syntec line does. However, it is one thing to meet a standard. Quite another to exceed it.
No, not at all. Group III oil, like any other type of base oil, but especially group III, has a WIDE spectrum of performance. You could essentially have a group III that doesn't perform as well as a stellar group II+ base oil.
It does kind of make me laugh. I can remember Mobil making all of that noise when Castrol was using Group III and calling their oil a synthetic oil. And as far as I know in Europe there are still a lot of true synthetic oils (and at synthetic oil prices too).
I think if I owned a Corvette I would use Redline. You know, really, what an incredible joke!
I know one thing. I am not using Mobil 1 in the wintertime. They sure as heck will not lower the price of their oil the same time they are lowering the quality. A person might as well use some less expensive 'synthetic' oil that is Group III. I guess one good thing is that this now opens up more motor oils for testing here at bobistheoilguy.com. The motor oils that used to be ignored, like all of those Group III 'synthetic' oils that nobody used to test.
I think if I owned a Corvette I would use Redline. You know, really, what an incredible joke!
I know one thing. I am not using Mobil 1 in the wintertime. They sure as heck will not lower the price of their oil the same time they are lowering the quality. A person might as well use some less expensive 'synthetic' oil that is Group III. I guess one good thing is that this now opens up more motor oils for testing here at bobistheoilguy.com. The motor oils that used to be ignored, like all of those Group III 'synthetic' oils that nobody used to test.
No, it is a Group III oil.
QuakerState synthetic is a Group III, as stated by Johnny (retired Pennzoil employee). I believe Johnny also stated that Pennzoil Platinum was superior to the Quaker State Synthetic offerings.
Oh please.
Motor oil is a fairly elastic good- if customers don't perceive enough value at that price, they'll switch to something else where they do.
Just because ExxonMobil is making record profits, doesn't mean that they should automatically start charging less for their oil.
Pricing doesn't have anything much to do with the actual cost of the product, beyond meeting a certain profit margin. I'd bet in Mobil1's case, they could probably sell it around $2 a quart and make a tidy profit.
The problem with that would be that it would lose a lot of it's cachet as *the* best mass-market synthetic oil. As in, if it was $2, we'd still buy it, but Joe Six-pack would look at it and wonder why it was so cheap, if it's supposedly so good, and probably end up with Valvoline because it's priced more in line with where his perceptions of super-premium synthetic oil should be priced. It's kind of a big game of follow-the-leader, within a category, except that it's based on consumer perceptions and not on actual product cost.
Group III vs. PAO comes into this at the point where the oil companies are charging $5 per quart for it, and they realize that they can make a similar or even better product with Group III when compared the all-PAO product, except at a 20% less cost. That 20% goes into their pocket.
This is business.... the entire point of oil companies(or any company) is to make money by charging what the market will bear for their products, and by producing those products for less than what the market will bear. Vilifying those companies for actually making money is kind of ignorant of how the system works.
Motor oil is a fairly elastic good- if customers don't perceive enough value at that price, they'll switch to something else where they do.
Just because ExxonMobil is making record profits, doesn't mean that they should automatically start charging less for their oil.
Pricing doesn't have anything much to do with the actual cost of the product, beyond meeting a certain profit margin. I'd bet in Mobil1's case, they could probably sell it around $2 a quart and make a tidy profit.
The problem with that would be that it would lose a lot of it's cachet as *the* best mass-market synthetic oil. As in, if it was $2, we'd still buy it, but Joe Six-pack would look at it and wonder why it was so cheap, if it's supposedly so good, and probably end up with Valvoline because it's priced more in line with where his perceptions of super-premium synthetic oil should be priced. It's kind of a big game of follow-the-leader, within a category, except that it's based on consumer perceptions and not on actual product cost.
Group III vs. PAO comes into this at the point where the oil companies are charging $5 per quart for it, and they realize that they can make a similar or even better product with Group III when compared the all-PAO product, except at a 20% less cost. That 20% goes into their pocket.
This is business.... the entire point of oil companies(or any company) is to make money by charging what the market will bear for their products, and by producing those products for less than what the market will bear. Vilifying those companies for actually making money is kind of ignorant of how the system works.
Yes, but we don't have to buy their products. Sort of like that commercial where the woman is in a fancy store that sells TVs and tells the guy in the store that TVs are cheaper at Wal-Mart. Well, if Chevron 'Synthetic' Group III is a lot cheaper than Mobil 1 'synthetic' and about the same quality I will buy the Chevron.
All the discussions here about synthetic oils may become easier. Now it is probably between Amsoil and Redline. Unless people start discussing the Group III 'synthetics.' And maybe even some of the Amsoil oils now use Group III. I guess the pure synthetic oil guys now have one choice-Redline.
All the discussions here about synthetic oils may become easier. Now it is probably between Amsoil and Redline. Unless people start discussing the Group III 'synthetics.' And maybe even some of the Amsoil oils now use Group III. I guess the pure synthetic oil guys now have one choice-Redline.
Yes, I was going to mention the same thing.
Let's keep our eyes wide open.
Royal Purple
The ONLY oil with Group III in Amsoil's line-up is the XL line as they have for the last 3-4 years. AGAIN any other talk is just that - bull puckey. BiTOG should pride itself in NOT spreading MANURE.
When Exxon continues to raise the price of Mobil 1 to obscene levels while they are now potentially lowering their cost on the product and still peddling it as superior, then that's messed up.
Like I said, marketing is a powerful force and I've finally gotten over the fact the price and value are so mutually exclusive for most commodity type consumer products, that I buy cheap. Except guns! "Joe Six Pack" gets bamboozled and marketed into his "perception" that continuing to buy Mobil 1 at $7 a quart is of value and that the product is superior.
That's not to say I don't own some Exxon Mobil!!!
And boy oh boy, if this is true, then it'll spread like that California Wildfire on the internet. Exxon will really get a lesson in what price the market will bear.
Like I said, marketing is a powerful force and I've finally gotten over the fact the price and value are so mutually exclusive for most commodity type consumer products, that I buy cheap. Except guns! "Joe Six Pack" gets bamboozled and marketed into his "perception" that continuing to buy Mobil 1 at $7 a quart is of value and that the product is superior.
That's not to say I don't own some Exxon Mobil!!!
And boy oh boy, if this is true, then it'll spread like that California Wildfire on the internet. Exxon will really get a lesson in what price the market will bear.
Yep...that's where our Business and Marketing education in this country falls short. They teach them the "what the market will bear" part, without teaching them the ethics of "honestly portraying the quality of their product".
Too many Corps today rely on barriers to entering a market, a corrupted intellectual property system, marketing bamboozlement, outsourcing for slave wages as opposed to truly innovative solutions produced more efficently.
Esso XD-3 (0 weights) for us Canadians and those Americans close to the border.
Do not grow complacent with your chosen brand. They count on that.
Mobil 1 MSDS dated September 21, 2006 reflects a pour point of -54F. This is performance far below what a Group III 50W would pour.. Very simple.. Mobil 1 is a Group IV base stock oil.. Period..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
George Morrison, STLE CLS
Darn, I have the day off. I need to go get some
George, you are a distributor of said oil. Your fight is not with those of us who question it, but with ExxonMobil for making the product questionable.
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