I just wish they would spend the road tax on the roads instead of spending it elsewhere.
Why the big push to eliminate ICEs?
- Thread starter grampi
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Has anyone thought about infrastructure? Someone did a study about what it would take to change all the gas stations in Ca. to charging stations. A whole new electric infrastructure would have to be built. The costs were astronomical and there wasn't near enough electricity in the state to do even half of it. So where is all that new electricity going to come from. There is a recent report from the govt. that our current infrastructure is antiquated and basically maxed out operating on old technology. And it's extremely vulnerable to hacks and breakdowns. The Pentagon has stated that it is in China's war plan to take out out power grid early on.
What they don't tell you is coal plants have been cleaned up quite a bit with scrubber technologies and such.
Again, why the push to do away with ANY form of energy? Why not have as many forms of energy as can be created and let Joe Public decide what we want to use? If you want EVs, fine. I want ICE vehicles. The more choices we have, the better. I don't want big brother telling me I can't choose whatever I want...
We need to start somewhere-----that oil coming out of the ground WILL NOT BE THERE FOREVER.
Now is a better time than ever.
already has happened in most areas
The sad part is EVs have nothing to do with the “losses” that already started in the late 90’s
H
Yes infrastructure has been discussed continuously even before EVs were a thing.
Most areas guarantee installation costs + profit which means most utilities which are in a stagnant market are elated .
How will John Q pay for this?
No idea but from what I’ve seen BEV growth has been extraordinarily slow outside CA.
There are other areas starting to get plug in hybrids but their battery sizes are so small that the grid operators view them as irrelevant .
Around here we overbuilt in the 90s-2k and have been removing power plants every year since. Brain dead policy to guarantee profits on new plants you don’t need
EV Taxes are already leveraged in most areas
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Sure they do. They are much cleaner than they were, still terrible for the environment.
Think how smart the average person is, and realise that half the population is dumber than that.
Thank you George.
Do you really believe that? What if you wanted to raise your vehicle so that the bumper was 3' off the ground--or higher? skip out on maintenance and drive something with sub-standard brakes or tires? save money by buying a new car sans emissions equipment, or sans seatbelts, airbags, etc. What if you get hooked on reading Agatha Christie and then decide that it's best to drive on the left side of the road going forward?
Nobody likes having choices removed, I get that.
As battery prices drop, I’d bet EVs will be more profitable than ICE for the manufacturers. The drivetrain on most EVs are amazingly simple, so they’re cheap. Once the the batteries are cheap and mass produced, it’ll be game over for most ICE passenger vehicles.
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Half the folks here will be past driving or passed away before you can't buy an ICE. Why fuss over something that's unlikely to affect you? Younger folks will be be much more aware of the benefits of lowering carbon emissions and be a lot more open to non-ICE technologies.
Pros and cons for my EV and ICE which both have similar ranges of 400 kms:
EV Pros: Fueling cost only 1/7 of my ICE, much quicker and smoother, only have to visit a smelly gas station to fill tires, maintenance costs less than half ICE, very low operating carbon emissions, electricity price more stable than gas price, no warm-up period required to obtain max performance.
EV Cons: Expensive to purchase and insure, battery will start to lose range after about 10 years, no tow rating.
ICE Pros: Only cost 40% of EV to purchase new, more engaging to drive as a manual, can fuel up in minutes, can tow.
ICE Cons: much higher operating carbon emissions, higher maintenance costs and effort, slow acceleration, seems like archaic technology in comparison.
Pros and cons for my EV and ICE which both have similar ranges of 400 kms:
EV Pros: Fueling cost only 1/7 of my ICE, much quicker and smoother, only have to visit a smelly gas station to fill tires, maintenance costs less than half ICE, very low operating carbon emissions, electricity price more stable than gas price, no warm-up period required to obtain max performance.
EV Cons: Expensive to purchase and insure, battery will start to lose range after about 10 years, no tow rating.
ICE Pros: Only cost 40% of EV to purchase new, more engaging to drive as a manual, can fuel up in minutes, can tow.
ICE Cons: much higher operating carbon emissions, higher maintenance costs and effort, slow acceleration, seems like archaic technology in comparison.
Which is the whole point.
We have expensive gas here partly because the air was very bad in LA back in the 80s and before. It cost a lot of money to get RFG 2 to clean up this mess, it is not all tax that leads to the fuel cost.
Shifting that emission to Texas wouldn't be a big deal, they love their energy industry and I'd be happy to pay them to take the emission from us. Everyone's happy in the end, no?
So now you know why Texas has cheap gas, low tax, and toll road now?
Well, people did even crazier stuff to get oil, like, drilling into the arctic circle, floating an oil platform in deep water and then drill miles under the sea floor, going horizontal in drilling and then pushes water into the oil well to fracture the rock formation, heating up tar mixed in with sand to get 1/4 of the weight out as super thick oil, liquified and refrigerate gas to preventing it from exploding into a giant fireball, fighting wars and killing thousands to make sure the oil can go from point A to point B.
Mining some cobalt and lithium, are not really that much more challenging than extracting oil.
First off, assuming you are talking about politics, money speak, and it only last 4-8 years in the US, so just chill. We've been through that road before in the 90s and remember what happened to EV1? They are dropped as soon as the political climate change. This "EV only" policy can change just like that too.
The only way EV will sustain, is to be like hybrid. They said the same thing about hybrid being a political farce back then and look at it now, it stands on its own and people buy them without subsidy for delivery and uber duty. Maybe EV will reach that and then maybe people will choose it, or maybe if it didn't then politics will sway itself and that "EV only" policy will becomes what happen back in the 90s, get dropped.
So, just chill, you'll be fine.
China is doing most of the heavy lifting in EV right now, they will likely get it done and make it competitive and then we will copy them, they have all the reasons to do that (national security, domestic brand promotion, emission, grid stability, bragging right, stimulus to the economy, solar push, nuclear push, grid upgrade, etc).
Sounds like a very efficient and cost effective way to drill versus having multiple drilling platforms in the same area.
True right now, but probably not so much in the future when EVs increase in popularity and are way more prevalent on the roads. When the infrastructure needs huge expansion to support millions of EVs, and road use tax revenue still needs to be taken in even probably more so, then electricity going into charging EVs isn't going to stay as cheap as it is today. The cost of ownership will surely have to go up, and power for charging will most likely be sold at a higher rate for EV charging. It will have to be broken out somehow from the grid so it can be controlled and priced specifically for EV use ... that's my prediction at least.
Yeah and there are "transmission losses" refining oil and delivering it to your local Speedway. You can add a car going out of its way for gas as part of that loss.
EVs that charge at 3 am on timers use power when the grid has more headroom. A conductor lightly loaded has fewer losses.
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The problem is that if EVs become the norm the USA would literally have to rebuild almost the entire grid to handle the load.
Other than that you'd have numerous brown outs and related such problems.
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