Hey hey, stop picking on CA and calling it a loony bin! NY is right in there with them, so give NY its due credit!!
Why not more hybrids?
- Thread starter grampi
- Start date
New York is most definitely gaining ground.
Big time!
Exactly. Talk is cheap. No one knows what the market will support in a decade. Of if there will even be one for EV's by then.
The way things are going, we could be in the bowels of a huge depression by then.
The ONLY reason the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Vehicle Program even exists at the miniscule capacity it does, is directly because the fuel is subsidized by Toyota. (A lot of it is buried in the purchase price of the vehicle).California has 48 refueling stations with development coming for more areas as you can refuel and drive on. Here is some more info if curious
10 Things You Didn’t Know about Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles in America
Will the hydrogen economy ever get here? Too soon to tell.www.autoweek.com
But the fact is, once the hydrogen fuel subsidies run out, the car becomes all but worthless on the open market. They are in fact worthless anywhere except within range of the grand total of 48 hydrogen fuel stations where you can buy fuel for them. And hydrogen takes more energy to make than it can produce. And that little obstacle is going to be tough to get around. Especially if it is ever proven on a large scale.
They're even more useless than a battery EV for any type of travel. At least you can find electrical outlets anywhere..... As long as you don't mind waiting. And good luck waiting for hydrogen gas stations to appear in flyover country. That's going to be like finding a triple horned unicorn.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
And that's why it needs to be thought of as a storage medium/battery, rather than a "fuel". Liberating hydrogen from methane or water is an energy intensive process, so is compressing and transporting it. You continue to amass this stack of losses through the entire supply chain. That's why I've pointed out a few times now that, compared to the current method of hydrogen production (methane reformation) using that methane in a fuel cell directly is actually cleaner.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I would not be anti EV as I am if few things were different. #1 They should be allowed to evolve and take their own market as all other products have. I really feel the major push is on due to one thing only. Greed / the almighty dollar that corrupts so much. I am willing to bet every politician in every country on earth has a large chunk of EV + non fossil fuel related investments in their portfolios.
#2 It is insane to push anything "electric" especially in such a massive scale as "they" are while we have not proven one single alternative power source other than their so called "evil nuclear" which is already proven effective and safe (except many wont let us use nuclear either). #3 How are we going to magically start to create the millions of products the world creates from the chemical industries that also require fossil fuels? No one has stepped up to answere how all these things will change in a blink of an eye when we turn the switch (in their minds) to cut off fossil fuels. Just one list of things they have no answers for at the same time they are pushing to turn that imaginary switch to OFF. https://allusesof.com/energy/75-uses-of-fossil-fuels-in-daily-life/
#4 How smart really is it to come up with millions EVs that require the batteries that cause a lot of pollution to build and dispose of at the same time the entire electric grid in the USA is already old / tired and weak and is not upgraded or even maintained well these days until some disaster hits a part of it someplace while the Electric companies bathe in the riches and profits they keep on making no matter what.
Electric companies today: massive profits with less service.
We have a street light that has been out for 6 months. In all that time we have had six people on our street call and place work orders to repair it. I have spoken to them 7 times. We used to call and have a light fixed in two weeks. Makes me wonder how efficient our power companies are going to be at this rate in the future.
#2 It is insane to push anything "electric" especially in such a massive scale as "they" are while we have not proven one single alternative power source other than their so called "evil nuclear" which is already proven effective and safe (except many wont let us use nuclear either). #3 How are we going to magically start to create the millions of products the world creates from the chemical industries that also require fossil fuels? No one has stepped up to answere how all these things will change in a blink of an eye when we turn the switch (in their minds) to cut off fossil fuels. Just one list of things they have no answers for at the same time they are pushing to turn that imaginary switch to OFF. https://allusesof.com/energy/75-uses-of-fossil-fuels-in-daily-life/
#4 How smart really is it to come up with millions EVs that require the batteries that cause a lot of pollution to build and dispose of at the same time the entire electric grid in the USA is already old / tired and weak and is not upgraded or even maintained well these days until some disaster hits a part of it someplace while the Electric companies bathe in the riches and profits they keep on making no matter what.
Electric companies today: massive profits with less service.
We have a street light that has been out for 6 months. In all that time we have had six people on our street call and place work orders to repair it. I have spoken to them 7 times. We used to call and have a light fixed in two weeks. Makes me wonder how efficient our power companies are going to be at this rate in the future.
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SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
you have a good handle on the hydrogen part of all this rush to somthing else
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Article makes common sense. But how many would be willing to jump from an airplane before the parachute was invented?
That is an exaggeration but scary similar action to what / how fast some anti fossil fulers want the world to change.
Just take their lead, close our eyes and jump.
greencoast.org
That is an exaggeration but scary similar action to what / how fast some anti fossil fulers want the world to change.
Just take their lead, close our eyes and jump.
What Are the Pros and Cons of Fossil Fuels? A Complete Guide
Today, most Americans want to move away from fossil fuels. So why are they still the largest source of energy in the United States?
greencoast.org
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I like the Toyota Synergy Hybrid Drive system. That has been a proven system they are vary reliable and the fuel economy is vary good. The one they put on the Tundra is the same on the Ford F-150, is nothing more than a electric motor on the rear differential. The engine and transmission is the same as the one without it, so I don't expect the reliability to be increased by a whole lot. The fuel economy is not a whole lot better. I think I would take a pass on that one.
Good point. IMO what the manufacturers are currently saying in public is quite different than what they say behind closed doors.
In the search for a new car earlier this year, I looked at all options. I have a family of 6 and our main car is a minivan. I needed a commuter as my daughter took over my 09 Camry.
EV is perfect for my commute, and nothing more. The availability for immediate purchase was 0, and I could not afford one anyway.
Hybrid was next. Availability was close to 10 years in age and priced like a 2 year old car. New would have required waiting 6 months or so. While I really wanted to purchase one, I couldn’t due to affordability or potential battery replacement cost due to age.
ICE cars were plentiful in comparison, and I could find one that fit my price range.
Availability and price ended up causing me to make the purchase I did, as I needed a car NOW and could not wait.
That’s the problem today, and I hope it changes soon. Hybrids are where we should be focused until all of our infrastructure is available, and the batteries aren’t killing the environment in their manufacturing and disposal.
There was lots of great info in this thread and I appreciate the wisdom and diverse thought this forum attracts.
EV is perfect for my commute, and nothing more. The availability for immediate purchase was 0, and I could not afford one anyway.
Hybrid was next. Availability was close to 10 years in age and priced like a 2 year old car. New would have required waiting 6 months or so. While I really wanted to purchase one, I couldn’t due to affordability or potential battery replacement cost due to age.
ICE cars were plentiful in comparison, and I could find one that fit my price range.
Availability and price ended up causing me to make the purchase I did, as I needed a car NOW and could not wait.
That’s the problem today, and I hope it changes soon. Hybrids are where we should be focused until all of our infrastructure is available, and the batteries aren’t killing the environment in their manufacturing and disposal.
There was lots of great info in this thread and I appreciate the wisdom and diverse thought this forum attracts.
Not actually. California sells 10 time’s more EV’s than New York. Having said that their 2035 deadline is more looney than California since they are off to a much slower start.
It'd be nice if we got rid of their insider trading allowance, though it would just be their spouse/ uncle making the insider money.
The nuke/ anti-nuke fight doesn't neatly align with political party lines. Seems like more of a NIMBY thing. It's a sensible baseload, way better than the gas peaker plants for which finding gas is a sudden challenge. The engineering challenge will be energy storage, like repeatedly pumping water uphill for later release in a closed loop turbine battery stetup. There are turnkey nuke plants that we know how to build, but political interference seems to keep wanting to make "special" ones that take forever and go waaay over budget.
Petroleum products != fossil fuels. When we refine oil we have control over the "stack". It's just that at present we want burnable fuel and the plastics companies get the "leftovers."
This is a moral hazard of allowing big companies to privatize profits while saddling the public with emergent losses. We let Wall Street do it in the bust of 2009 and we let utilities do it now. "Too big to fail."
You need a stronger PUC. Someone's in bed with someone else.
They do, the grid here sucks big time. But trust me NY makes up for the lunacy in CA in other ways. Just take a ride on the subway, sickening. Catch and release, NY takes that concept to another level.Not actually. California sells 10 time’s more EV’s than New York. Having said that their 2035 deadline is more looney than California since they are off to a much slower start.
Streetlights are maintained by the local municipality not the electric company.
In my area "anyone" (but typically a municipality) can order a "yard light" from the PoCo. Pay per month, they hook it up to their wires. No meter is necessary, they know the draw. And the PoCo changes the bulb if necessary as part of the deal.
The hybrid gives you the flexibility to go on long trips without having to plan out recharge points. So for example you get a call that a relative has passed and the funeral is two states over you can get there in reasonable time and schedule.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
We have always called the phone number on your electric bill or placed a work order on their website and the power company bucket truck shows up to repair. Been like that last 15 - 20 years. Been going thru this since Jan 2022. They have actually show 2-3 dated "work order completed" in the system yet it is still not repaired. We have two streets with similar names so I have sent them a street map and still no help.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I am very open to hybrids. Why cant we transition to hybrids while the other stuff is developed and put in place if it can be? The alternative energy source that EVs wont make sense without. Also the upgraded and any special equipments and electrical grids that can handle all the extra work load.
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