Originally Posted By: Jake777
Good point on the NOVAC
FYI, it is Noack.
Good point on the NOVAC
FYI, it is Noack.
Why not 0w?
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In FL you stand to gain not a thing, nor lose anything either if you want to do it then do it.
The grade is more important IMO. I'd not run a 0w20 in a vehicle spec'd for 5w30.
The grade is more important IMO. I'd not run a 0w20 in a vehicle spec'd for 5w30.
Originally Posted By: Jake777
I could use some clarification here. I have three cars I maintain they call for 10w30 5w30 and 5w20. My question is why wouldn't I just use 0w for them all? I plan on running Pennzoil Platinum no matter what and I can get both 0w and 5w for the same price. With most of the damage done to an engine being during warm up why wouldn't you want a 0w-20 in place of 5w-20? Am i missing something? Would it hurt the old 1999 car that calls for 10w30 to run 0w-30?
You're in Florida. Oil pressure delay on startup is not going to hurt your engine with either 5 or 10w30.
I could use some clarification here. I have three cars I maintain they call for 10w30 5w30 and 5w20. My question is why wouldn't I just use 0w for them all? I plan on running Pennzoil Platinum no matter what and I can get both 0w and 5w for the same price. With most of the damage done to an engine being during warm up why wouldn't you want a 0w-20 in place of 5w-20? Am i missing something? Would it hurt the old 1999 car that calls for 10w30 to run 0w-30?
You're in Florida. Oil pressure delay on startup is not going to hurt your engine with either 5 or 10w30.
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
Funny, they said the same thing about TV in the '50...radio in the '20s...mass printed books in the 1450s...
;^)
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
Funny, they said the same thing about TV in the '50...radio in the '20s...mass printed books in the 1450s...
;^)
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of 5w-xx oils with higher NOACK volatility than many 0w-xx.
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of 5w-xx oils with higher NOACK volatility than many 0w-xx.
I would run 10w30 in all your vehicles and call it a day if u wanted just 1 grade of oil. You can use 0w30 w no problems too
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of 5w-xx oils with higher NOACK volatility than many 0w-xx.
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
In 100F weather, startup wear will not change between 0W and 5W. But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W.... So yes it matters what is the first number, especially in Florida's summer temperatures.
There is no 'free lunch'.
Assuming things, instead or researching, is the disease of this generation, because of reduced attention span from watching too much youtube
That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of 5w-xx oils with higher NOACK volatility than many 0w-xx.
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
In 100F weather, startup wear will not change between 0W and 5W. But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of 5w-xx oils with higher NOACK volatility than many 0w-xx.
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
In 100F weather, startup wear will not change between 0W and 5W. But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
After 200k miles I doubt any oil will be like it was when new.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of 5w-xx oils with higher NOACK volatility than many 0w-xx.
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
In 100F weather, startup wear will not change between 0W and 5W. But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
After 200k miles I doubt any oil will be like it was when new.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
In 100F weather, startup wear will not change between 0W and 5W. But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses.
If the volatile components flash off, what do you think you end up with? And who runs an oil 200,000 miles?
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
Some engines won't care but others will.
I think any engine is going to care if you try to use an oil for 200,000 miles.
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Not even sure what you are trying to say here, as you were the one over-simplifying the NOACK thing...
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
In 100F weather, startup wear will not change between 0W and 5W. But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses.
If the volatile components flash off, what do you think you end up with? And who runs an oil 200,000 miles?
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
Some engines won't care but others will.
I think any engine is going to care if you try to use an oil for 200,000 miles.
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Not even sure what you are trying to say here, as you were the one over-simplifying the NOACK thing...
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
I am talking of the SAME oils as in same brand and same 'top' end - 0W30 VS 5W30 VS 10W30...
I know, science is hard, you need to figure out that you really need to change only ONE variable.
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
I am talking of the SAME oils as in same brand and same 'top' end - 0W30 VS 5W30 VS 10W30...
I know, science is hard, you need to figure out that you really need to change only ONE variable.
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The question "Why not Ow?" can be answered in a few ways and not necessarily related to just the grade. If I have a DI car and want a low NOACK/TEOST/SAPS kind of thing then I don't really care if the 0w-20 "will work". Most of the brands I'm interested in have lower NOACK figures in a 5w30 than an Ow-20 or 0w30 so that might be what I'd use even if the newer grades were back spec'd to be approved for my model.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
I am talking of the SAME oils as in same brand and same 'top' end - 0W30 VS 5W30 VS 10W30...
I know, science is hard, you need to figure out that you really need to change only ONE variable.
Nice show of class with the personal attack
However, you never specified the same grade, you said:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Should I stoop to your level and remark that perhaps writing is hard? This really doesn't have to go this way.
But sure, lets confine it to a 30 weight then. What do you think has a lower NOACK, Castrol Edge 5w30 or Castrol Edge 0w-30?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
I am talking of the SAME oils as in same brand and same 'top' end - 0W30 VS 5W30 VS 10W30...
I know, science is hard, you need to figure out that you really need to change only ONE variable.
Nice show of class with the personal attack
However, you never specified the same grade, you said:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I am talking about the SAME brand, same type of oil (synt or conv) - comparing apples with apples.
Should I stoop to your level and remark that perhaps writing is hard? This really doesn't have to go this way.
But sure, lets confine it to a 30 weight then. What do you think has a lower NOACK, Castrol Edge 5w30 or Castrol Edge 0w-30?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
Why jump a grade to 0W40 ?
In this case, because we don't know the NOACK for any of the Mobil 0w-xx grades other than the 0w-40, so it was low hanging fruit.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Sure, so which do you think has lower NOACK volatility, Mobil 1 5w30 or Mobil 1 0w-40?
Why jump a grade to 0W40 ?
In this case, because we don't know the NOACK for any of the Mobil 0w-xx grades other than the 0w-40, so it was low hanging fruit.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I know, science is hard
BTW, pro tip: When telling somebody "science is hard", using non-scientific terms like "top end" instead of the appropriate reference to a particular SAE grade, it makes your condescension a touch flaccid.
As do statements such as this one you made earlier:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Which I still have no idea what you were trying to say
And speaking of that post, you did not answer any of the questions I posed to you in my reply to it. Instead, you've decided to imply that I'm stupid, which on that point, I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is far from the case. And personal attacks aren't going to help you in this matter.
You made an ABSOLUTE statement:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W
Which I simply replied to that this was not always the case. If you think this is the first time we've discussed this particular topic on this board, you would also be mistaken on that front as well.
There are a number of 0w-xx oils that have quite surprisingly low NOACK volatility. Of course the GENERAL rule of thumb is that as you depart from the straight grade into the multi-grade territory, the larger the split the higher the volatility, which actually makes my example of Mobil 1 0w-40 that much more relevant, as it has a wider split than a 0w30 but extremely low NOACK. But regardless, there are specific limits placed on NOACK for certain manufacturer approvals and oils that meet those approvals will have lower NOACK volatility (generally of course) than your generic synthetic PCMO from the same manufacturer. That is WHY I stated that your statement regarding NOACK is not always the case, because it isn't. It is a general rule of thumb, sure, but there are numerous exceptions.
This really didn't have to get uncivil, so it is unfortunate that you took it there.
I know, science is hard
BTW, pro tip: When telling somebody "science is hard", using non-scientific terms like "top end" instead of the appropriate reference to a particular SAE grade, it makes your condescension a touch flaccid.
As do statements such as this one you made earlier:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Which I still have no idea what you were trying to say
And speaking of that post, you did not answer any of the questions I posed to you in my reply to it. Instead, you've decided to imply that I'm stupid, which on that point, I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is far from the case. And personal attacks aren't going to help you in this matter.
You made an ABSOLUTE statement:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W
Which I simply replied to that this was not always the case. If you think this is the first time we've discussed this particular topic on this board, you would also be mistaken on that front as well.
There are a number of 0w-xx oils that have quite surprisingly low NOACK volatility. Of course the GENERAL rule of thumb is that as you depart from the straight grade into the multi-grade territory, the larger the split the higher the volatility, which actually makes my example of Mobil 1 0w-40 that much more relevant, as it has a wider split than a 0w30 but extremely low NOACK. But regardless, there are specific limits placed on NOACK for certain manufacturer approvals and oils that meet those approvals will have lower NOACK volatility (generally of course) than your generic synthetic PCMO from the same manufacturer. That is WHY I stated that your statement regarding NOACK is not always the case, because it isn't. It is a general rule of thumb, sure, but there are numerous exceptions.
This really didn't have to get uncivil, so it is unfortunate that you took it there.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I know, science is hard
BTW, pro tip: When telling somebody "science is hard", using non-scientific terms like "top end" instead of the appropriate reference to a particular SAE grade, it makes your condescension a touch flaccid.
As do statements such as this one you made earlier:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Which I still have no idea what you were trying to say
And speaking of that post, you did not answer any of the questions I posed to you in my reply to it. Instead, you've decided to imply that I'm stupid, which on that point, I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is far from the case. And personal attacks aren't going to help you in this matter.
You made an ABSOLUTE statement:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W
Which I simply replied to that this was not always the case. If you think this is the first time we've discussed this particular topic on this board, you would also be mistaken on that front as well.
There are a number of 0w-xx oils that have quite surprisingly low NOACK volatility. Of course the GENERAL rule of thumb is that as you depart from the straight grade into the multi-grade territory, the larger the split the higher the volatility, which actually makes my example of Mobil 1 0w-40 that much more relevant, as it has a wider split than a 0w30 but extremely low NOACK. But regardless, there are specific limits placed on NOACK for certain manufacturer approvals and oils that meet those approvals will have lower NOACK volatility (generally of course) than your generic synthetic PCMO from the same manufacturer. That is WHY I stated that your statement regarding NOACK is not always the case, because it isn't. It is a general rule of thumb, sure, but there are numerous exceptions.
This really didn't have to get uncivil, so it is unfortunate that you took it there.
Sonics posts seem a little far fetched to me.
And in all my years here I honestly don't recall any point in which overkill made a statement that wasn't accurate.
So sonic trying to imply that nonsense says a lot about him,with this particular
Username anyway.
New username. Same attitude and junk posts.
Overkill. You showed a lot of class posting as you did.
Dunno how to posts the beers cheers thingy but I'm throwing one atcha
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
I know, science is hard
BTW, pro tip: When telling somebody "science is hard", using non-scientific terms like "top end" instead of the appropriate reference to a particular SAE grade, it makes your condescension a touch flaccid.
As do statements such as this one you made earlier:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
But after 200k miles in those temperatures, the 20 will not be '20' anymore because of NOACK loses. Some engines won't care but others will.
So yes, manufacturers know more then the simplistic 'smaller number is better'.
Which I still have no idea what you were trying to say
And speaking of that post, you did not answer any of the questions I posed to you in my reply to it. Instead, you've decided to imply that I'm stupid, which on that point, I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is far from the case. And personal attacks aren't going to help you in this matter.
You made an ABSOLUTE statement:
Originally Posted By: SoNic67
The 0W oils will have higher NOACK than the 5W or 10W
Which I simply replied to that this was not always the case. If you think this is the first time we've discussed this particular topic on this board, you would also be mistaken on that front as well.
There are a number of 0w-xx oils that have quite surprisingly low NOACK volatility. Of course the GENERAL rule of thumb is that as you depart from the straight grade into the multi-grade territory, the larger the split the higher the volatility, which actually makes my example of Mobil 1 0w-40 that much more relevant, as it has a wider split than a 0w30 but extremely low NOACK. But regardless, there are specific limits placed on NOACK for certain manufacturer approvals and oils that meet those approvals will have lower NOACK volatility (generally of course) than your generic synthetic PCMO from the same manufacturer. That is WHY I stated that your statement regarding NOACK is not always the case, because it isn't. It is a general rule of thumb, sure, but there are numerous exceptions.
This really didn't have to get uncivil, so it is unfortunate that you took it there.
Sonics posts seem a little far fetched to me.
And in all my years here I honestly don't recall any point in which overkill made a statement that wasn't accurate.
So sonic trying to imply that nonsense says a lot about him,with this particular
Username anyway.
New username. Same attitude and junk posts.
Overkill. You showed a lot of class posting as you did.
Dunno how to posts the beers cheers thingy but I'm throwing one atcha
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
There are a number of 0w-xx oils that have quite surprisingly low NOACK volatility. Of course the GENERAL rule of thumb is that as you depart from the straight grade into the multi-grade territory, the larger the split the higher the volatility, which actually makes my example of Mobil 1 0w-40 that much more relevant, as it has a wider split than a 0w30 but extremely low NOACK.
Agreed, especially with conventional oil, 10W30 is much more shear stable than 5W30 of the same brand.
There are a number of 0w-xx oils that have quite surprisingly low NOACK volatility. Of course the GENERAL rule of thumb is that as you depart from the straight grade into the multi-grade territory, the larger the split the higher the volatility, which actually makes my example of Mobil 1 0w-40 that much more relevant, as it has a wider split than a 0w30 but extremely low NOACK.
Agreed, especially with conventional oil, 10W30 is much more shear stable than 5W30 of the same brand.
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