Why isn't there a manual transmission standard shift pattern design?
- Thread starter CharlesInCharge
- Start date
I have driven 3 and 4 on the tree but not 5 on the tree.
www.autoweek.com
I have owned and driven a few of these..
The pinnacle of manual gearshifts: Five-on-the-tree column shifter
Here's what 5-on-the-tree looks like in action
www.autoweek.com
I have owned and driven a few of these..
Because some transmissions are 50 years old and they don't feel like updating them.
Because some linkages need that extra little wiggle to get into reverse, so Marketing takes over and says it's a lockout for your safety.
Top Gear on the subject:
Because some linkages need that extra little wiggle to get into reverse, so Marketing takes over and says it's a lockout for your safety.
Top Gear on the subject:
Not sure why an MGB has reverse as left and down, which has a stiff spring that needed a gentle slap to get it to go left, and my Midget has reverse right and up, guarded by having to pull the gearshift straight up. Maybe Triumph just had to be different from MG and then British Leyland ended up sticking the Triumph Spitfire drivetrain in the Midgets.
To answer the original question posed in the thread title: Because life isn't fair.
I really liked those.my Chevelle was a 3 on the tree.
MGBs and Midgets both had left hand and right hand drive versions. The drivetrains for the UK and US versions were pretty much the same, other than the smog equipment.
Ditto. Having driven both LHD and RHD cars, the shift pattern is always the same. Also, to those that never thought about it, the foot pedals on RHD cars are exactly the same, (not reversed). Left foot clutch, right foot (center pedal) brake, right foot ( right pedal) accelerator. Drove many RHD cars when I lived in a RHD country for two years.
I watched dude a steer with a knee while cycling through songs on his phone and shift just fine. Driving a manual doesn’t remove any distractions.
Never wired up a reverse lockout on the T56 we put in my foxbody. Took 2 hands, or use your knee if you're tall, to move the shifter over & up for reverse. I was never worried about going in to the wrong gear because I'm not a numbskull. Rarely looked at the tach (unless at the track) & shifted by sound
When you think about it, the forward gears for manuals in most cars and light trucks do have a standard pattern. First is up and to the left, second below first, third up to the right of first, fourth below third, fifth up right again, etc. The main difference is the placement of reverse. The first-as-dogleg pattern and other variants are pretty rare.
Three-on-the-tree disappeared in new vehicles over 40 years ago. Some mid-1970s American pickups were the last to have those.
For new cars this is becoming an academic discussion.
Three-on-the-tree disappeared in new vehicles over 40 years ago. Some mid-1970s American pickups were the last to have those.
For new cars this is becoming an academic discussion.
I had a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500 2-door with a 289 that had a 3 on the tree. Converted it to 3 by the knee (JC Whitney floor shift kit) .
Got good at shifting fast on the tree - grabbing the shifter down low by the steering column was the key ("short shifter").
What a strange thing to get upset about. Unless there is no indicator or you are unfamiliar with the vehicle it's not a problem. The US made all motorcycle gearchanges on the same side and same pattern back in the '70's...at the time all my bikes had the opposite, and thought it was a weird thing to do. So of course now every bike is the same.
We had a couple of cars, both made by BMC at the time, both 4 speed column shift...my Austin A40 had 1st down and away, and the neutral gate came up for 3rd and 4th. My wife's Morris Oxford had 1st up and away, neutral gate down for 3rd and 4th...we seemed to be able to cope with each others car.
I once worked for a trucking company that had a fleet of Fuso trucks, the first in the country, the 5 speed/ 2 speed was removed from new and a Roadranger fitted...4 speed with a range split then a gear split to give 12 gears. Some of them had a different shift pattern, and it wasn't until you were smashing every gear that you bothered to look on the dash and see the shift pattern plate they put there for a reason.
We had a couple of cars, both made by BMC at the time, both 4 speed column shift...my Austin A40 had 1st down and away, and the neutral gate came up for 3rd and 4th. My wife's Morris Oxford had 1st up and away, neutral gate down for 3rd and 4th...we seemed to be able to cope with each others car.
I once worked for a trucking company that had a fleet of Fuso trucks, the first in the country, the 5 speed/ 2 speed was removed from new and a Roadranger fitted...4 speed with a range split then a gear split to give 12 gears. Some of them had a different shift pattern, and it wasn't until you were smashing every gear that you bothered to look on the dash and see the shift pattern plate they put there for a reason.
There are many gear patterns for manual transmissions, which seems could cause transmission damage or in a worst case a stall, a crash, etc.
Why has the industry never compromised and come to some gentlemen's agreement on a standardized design? Other items, like seatbelts, have standards. Surely one pattern is a superior design for speed and efficiency and safety? The problem comes if you have several manual cars or have to drive many (like a valet, or car dealer, etc.). You have to then relearn where the gears are.
To me this seems like the most logical design. Reverse pointing backwards (the direction you want to go), and to the left of the low gears so as to not inadvertently go from higher gears into Reverse and blow up the transmission and cause an accident. (I think modern cars lock it out, but it still makes sense.)
I had a VW that had the R off to the side, and required a downward push to then put it in R. You could not inadvertently put it into R without a downward push. I liked that feature a lot.
But you have other designs. Going from 5 to R would be a catastrophe.
This is at least safer, but not as intuitive IMO.
I hope your other car isn't a 6 speed...
Because they all have some kind of lockout on reverse so it doesn’t matter? Not going to be able to go into reverse unintentionally. I would be more worried about going from redline in third to second. ZING!!!
Knew someone that reportedly put reverse while on 4th on the highway with a Renault 4 like that. Apparently one piston went through the hood.
I still have a hard time believing it, all the manual I drove really didn't want their reverse gear being engaged while the car was moving forward, but I suppose you can force it /depend on the design.
I'm a bit embarrased to be a "car guy" and not have learned to drive a manual until I bought my MG in 2015 at the age of 27. Fortunately it's easy to drive. The 60 mile trip home was fun, but I made it, and fortunately by the time I got out of middle-of-nowhere Southern Indiana and into Louisville I was feeling a bit more comfortable, but it took me a few months(especially since it wasn't my daily car) to actually be comfortable with it. Now I can drive any manual, or at least any synchromesh(or mostly synchromesh-I've drive a fair few non-sync first cars and didn't have much trouble).
In any case, the MG kind of throws me off on a lot of other manuals. It's a 4 speed(or 4 1/2 some people will sometimes say) and reverse is back left. Reverse is not synchromesh, so there's no going into it even you get ham fisted when you're downshifting and pass the 2nd gate.
With that said, it more or less naturally "centers" in neutral in the 1-2 gates, so from a stop in neutral pushing directly forward puts you in 1st gear.
When I drive a 5+ speed, generally the stick will "center" in the 3-4 gate. Habit/muscle memory often takes over, the light changes and I just push the stick directly forward, and stall the car because I'm trying to start it in 3rd.
The few times I've driven a BMW 6 speed have been fun. I LOVE BMW manual transmissions, and think they make what may be the best at least currently around with their smooth and sharp shifts. With that said, I almost always have trouble getting reverse rather than 1st when I first get in because it's always a game of "You REALLY push the stick that far over?"
I love the so-called "dog leg" designs since 2-3 shifts in either direction are a lot more common than 1-2. If you drag it out to a 5 speed, it can go either way since 5-4 shifts are fairly common for passing on the interstate, for example, but 3-4 shifts are also decently common.
In any case, the MG kind of throws me off on a lot of other manuals. It's a 4 speed(or 4 1/2 some people will sometimes say) and reverse is back left. Reverse is not synchromesh, so there's no going into it even you get ham fisted when you're downshifting and pass the 2nd gate.
With that said, it more or less naturally "centers" in neutral in the 1-2 gates, so from a stop in neutral pushing directly forward puts you in 1st gear.
When I drive a 5+ speed, generally the stick will "center" in the 3-4 gate. Habit/muscle memory often takes over, the light changes and I just push the stick directly forward, and stall the car because I'm trying to start it in 3rd.
The few times I've driven a BMW 6 speed have been fun. I LOVE BMW manual transmissions, and think they make what may be the best at least currently around with their smooth and sharp shifts. With that said, I almost always have trouble getting reverse rather than 1st when I first get in because it's always a game of "You REALLY push the stick that far over?"
I love the so-called "dog leg" designs since 2-3 shifts in either direction are a lot more common than 1-2. If you drag it out to a 5 speed, it can go either way since 5-4 shifts are fairly common for passing on the interstate, for example, but 3-4 shifts are also decently common.
