Why is Mobil 1 such a lightning rod?

[Unleashedbeast]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
#1 in anything is always a lightning rod. Oils, cars, food, clothes, beverages, etc.


Well then....

I have the #1 waste oil storage container EVER!

Here comes the lightning!

 

[vtb]

Ha ha ha. Let the good times roll. I really did not expect this kind of fervor as a result of the question I posted. I didn't even make any claims about M1, just asked why it is the most attractive subject for the discussions to turn into battles.

So, I've gathered that: fans and detractors of M1 feel equally as strongly about the oils shortcomings/benefits as compared to other oils.

I am not qualified to make any judgement on it, I've never even used it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: vtb
Ha ha ha. Let the good times roll. I really did not expect this kind of fervor as a result of the question I posted. I didn't even make any claims about M1, just asked why it is the most attractive subject for the discussions to turn into battles.

So, I've gathered that: fans and detractors of M1 feel equally as strongly about the oils shortcomings/benefits as compared to other oils.

I am not qualified to make any judgement on it, I've never even used it.


You left out one participate, the observer. I think M1, and XOM in general, make some great products. Some, imo, are/were the best. Probably the best line of lubricants in worldwide distribution. Hard to not give credit where it is due.

..but the reaction to criticism is the oddity. Not whether or not there is or is not a given issue with the product.

It's got very little to do with M1 itself. The un'splained anomaly is the human factor in rebuttal. It can't take it head on. It deflects, attacks, distracts, obfuscates ..etc.

I can't be the only one to see this.


statement: M1 engines showed cam wear while the rest of the fleet did not

Reactions:

Your sister treated you poorly when you were young

Your observational skills are flawed

You're obviously only a M1 basher

or, in Tig's case..

You're only an M1 honest John reporter/supporter basher (that is, now proclaiming himself a victim - further distracting the thread from the core topic)


Note that none of those responses, as tongue in cheek as they are, ever address the cam issue. Bringing absolutely NOTHING productive to the thread. Merely trying to confuse, frustrate ..and "tie it up in committee".

This is how it's done.

 

[tig1]

Gary,
I think it has become more of a political issue of sorts than one of substance. I am fully aware that M1 my not be the best oil in all grades, no oil can claim that. But all of their oils are very good in many applications. By the way I noticed an Amsoil banner by a garage today which I never saw before. I may stop in and check things out. I do use your Saber 2 stroke oil, and it's very good.(be glad to give my testamony) I also may inquire about Amsoils compressor oil. As for engine oil, I'm set.

 

[Gary Allan]

(sigh) Thanks, Tig. Have yourself a nice day. I sincerely mean that

 

[buster]

Amsoil is a beefed up M1. That's how I've always looked at it. Oils are always changing and as bruce said, it depends on what point in time you are comparing oils due to the on going changes always being made/discovered. Both companies have been doing this for over 30 years. Has Amsoil always been better than M1? Not in my opinion. One of the more trustworthy Amsoil dealers told me the SSO uses M1's top of the line PAO. It's also part of the reason why it costs more, along with the additive package. You generally get what you pay for with oil. Not in all cases but most. Except Castrol Syntec.

 

[Gary Allan]

Agreed. Amsoil can take some time to get in phase with contemporary evolutions. Take the former coping mechanism with ..something like TSO. Amsoil used the characteristic thickening to their advantage in blanket spec'ing extended drains. As things evolved and this wasn't necessary anymore, it took them a bit to reformulate not needing this "crutch" anymore.

So, while Amsoil tends to be in a commanding position in extended drains (focusing from that viewpoint), there will be times where they're not leading edge. It's almost a given since their not the ones who are tinkering with the OEM's and (more or less) writing their own future specifications.

Sometimes it's more an appearance of lagging. We went through a ton of reformulation and certification around 2002. 5w-20 came out in OEM form... VW came out with a new 500.xx spec daily. It made XP Service pack updates look dusty. Amsoil appeared to let the dust settle before reacting.

 

[tig1]

It would be cool to see someone(with lots of money) take several cars all alike and do 1,000,000 mile dyno test(10K OCIs) like M1 did in the 90s, say with Amsoil, Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Syntec, Valvoline Synthetic, maybe a couple of others. I know dyno test are not the same as street use, but pistons do go up and down. At the end do a complete engine tear down. It would take a few years, but interesting none the less.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Tig, I think I might need to take your screen name to go with my new vehicle.

 

[fdcg27]

Out of the cars we currently drive, three out of five have had some miles on M1.
No ill effects noted.
Those who actully tear into engines regularly report that M1 does keep engines very clean.
Many manufactureres of high performance cars use M1 as factory fill, and recommend it for service use.
Good enough for me, nothing wrong with M1.
Are there better oils?
Probably.
Are they widely available?
No.

 

[ottotheclown]

Mobil 1 is to oil, as A Rod is to baseball.

 

[ottotheclown]

Didn,t Consumer Report do that end of the 90 s and find no difference in wear re. conventional and synthetic. plus no difference in 3 mo or 6 mo oci. This is with NY taxi fleet. I know I know the taxis did not start up just ran all nite, yawn.

Originally Posted By: tig1
It would be cool to see someone(with lots of money) take several cars all alike and do 1,000,000 mile dyno test(10K OCIs) like M1 did in the 90s, say with Amsoil, Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Syntec, Valvoline Synthetic, maybe a couple of others. I know dyno test are not the same as street use, but pistons do go up and down. At the end do a complete engine tear down. It would take a few years, but interesting none the less.

 

[Mustang Man]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Mustang Man
Synthetics (even the Group III wanna-bes), last longer, pour colder, take more heat, yada yada yada as been said and proven here numerous times than dino.

THAT IS FACT!



Prove it.

How about instead you try to DISPROVE it? All you have to do is compare the conventional and synthetic of the same major company and you will see what I told you is true. Go ahead. I dare you. Compare Mobil Clean 5000 5w30 to Mobil 1 5w30 and tell me I am wrong. You can't.

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Mustang Man

Assuming M1 is still mainly PAO


Prove it.

You are not very good at quoting as you seem to have skipped over the first work in that quote; ASSUMING. This would be one the questions I would post if Mobil 1 ever does a Q&A here.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Mustang Man
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Mustang Man
Synthetics (even the Group III wanna-bes), last longer, pour colder, take more heat, yada yada yada as been said and proven here numerous times than dino.

THAT IS FACT!



Prove it.

How about instead you try to DISPROVE it? All you have to do is compare the conventional and synthetic of the same major company and you will see what I told you is true. Go ahead. I dare you. tell me I am wrong. You can't.


Yawn.

Mobil 1 0w-30

40c 63.1
100c 11cSt

Chevron Supreme 5w30

40c 59.4cSt
100c 9.7cSt


Originally Posted By: Mustang Man

You are not very good at quoting as you seem to have skipped over the first work in that quote; ASSUMING.


You know what they say about ASSuming...

 

[Mustang Man]

There you go again comparing two different company oils. As I said...

Originally Posted By: Mustang Man
How about instead you try to DISPROVE it? All you have to do is compare the conventional and synthetic of the same major company and you will see what I told you is true. Go ahead. I dare you. Compare Mobil Clean 5000 5w30 to Mobil 1 5w30 and tell me I am wrong. You can't.

 

[Shannow]

Why does it have to be the SAME company ?

If two different companies achieve the same end through different means, that would mean more IMO.

 

[Mustang Man]

Not really. The numbers are usually off between the different companies. One oil company's 5w30 may be thinner or thicker than another oil company's 5w30.

But anyway, the point was to prove this...

Originally Posted By: Mustang Man
Synthetics (even the Group III wanna-bes), last longer, pour colder, take more heat, yada yada yada as been said and proven here numerous times than dino.

THAT IS FACT!

And it is easier to prove it by sticking with the same company.

Heck let's use Valvoline as an example...

Valvoline 5w30 conventional...

Vis @ 100°C (cSt)
10.78
Vis @ 40°C (cSt)
63.0
Viscosity Index
162
TBN
7.5
Flash COC (°C)
220
Pour Point (°C) max
-36

Valvoline SynPower 5w30...

Vis @ 100°C (cSt)
10.5
Vis @ 40°C (cSt)
59
Viscosity Index
169
TBN
8.3
Flash COC (°C)
223
Pour Point (°C) max
-42

Slight differences but everything favors the Group III synthetic over the dino.

Now the Mobil example...

Mobil Clean 5000 5w30...

cSt at 40°C
62.2
cSt at 100°C
10.6
Viscosity Index
161
Pour Point, °C (°F)
-33 (-27)
Flash Point, °C (°F), ASTM D 92
200 (392)

Mobil 1 5w30...

cSt at 40°C
64.8
cSt at 100°C
11.3
Viscosity Index
169
Pour Point, °C
-48
Flash Point, °C, ASTM D 92
230

Even bigger differences in comparing Mobil.

I like the VOAs better. I put my money up and sent Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 out of the 5 qt. jug in. I am anxious to see what it says.

So why is Mobil 1 such a lightning rod? Because it sells more than any other company's synthetic and more auto makers use it when specifying synthetic than any other company's synthetic. And it is pretty affordable at $21/5 qt. jug at Wal-Mart.

That was another reason I wanted to do the 0w30 VOA out of the jug; to see if it is weaker than the 1 qt. bottle.

I still want to know if M1 is now Group III, IV, or V.

Another challenge, show me a new auto owner's manual that says to use dino only and to absolutely never use synthetic. I bet that doesn't exist either.

 

[Shannow]

So it's easier to prove YOUR point by using the same manufacturer, who wouldn't dare have two oils of the same performance two lines apart in the catalogue, and one double or triple the price on the shelf.

But comparing two different manufacturers, who may use to different technologies to achieve similar results, at different base stocks and price points is invalid.

Means that your original question was flawed, or at least structured to slant the outcome.

Quote:
I like the VOAs better. I put my money up and sent Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 out of the 5 qt. jug in. I am anxious to see what it says.


Don't results count more than paper analysis ?

 

[Summerwind]

Don't results count more than paper analysis ?

I'm more of a "results" person myself...M1 in My application, and engine has performed very well, could other oils have done so? Most likely yes,,However, since in my particular motor, (2.8V6) I have had excellent service with it, I see no need to switch. Not meaning to antagonize either side here, just my personal experience.

 

[Mustang Man]

Well that's just it. We will never know the technologies fully used. We have limited information available publicly.

The question is not flawed. We get a better understanding of the synthetic being better than the dino using the same company which usually has the same info on THEIR oils as I showed in my previous post.

YES! Results count more than paper analysis. I am already seeing it in my engine using Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-30. The red/brown varnish on the cam I can see through the oil filler is almost gone since running this oil for 300+ miles now. I am sure that varnish will completely go away as the M1 works it away and cleans. There was a old Ford dealership oil change sticker in the car when I bought it a couple of months ago. It didn't list the oil used just the date and mileage for the next change. I would almost bet money it was Motorcraft 5w-20. That extra special Ford oil! The varnish maker at least in my Ford engine.

But the paper analysis gives us some more information instead of just cSt numbers and temperatures that most oil company websites have.