Why ICE is here to stay for some time?

[Mainia]

We all knew that would happen and it will happen here. People still believe what they are told and as long as they do there will be people who grandstand on an idea that isnt and never will be possible as far as current battery powered EVs being mainstream. I mean the idea is so ridiculous that I really overestimated the general public that they would believe such a thing and for yet another idea (carbon emissions) that they are told yet cant see.

They believe it when it is repeated over and over and over and over, on TV news/commercials/movies/sitcomes/and cartoons. Also in lower education, university and government jobs ad nauseam and then AGAIN ad nauseam. They have critical massed the brainwashing. Just give up and believe it...................

Yep, but it happened, and wrecked the solar farm. A vehicle with fair warning can be moved, not the case with the solar farm. Fair warning they might have been able to cover the panels or possibly some of them. Either way IMO there's a lesson in this.

Easy..................Steel plate rotated from under ground with a 30 second response time to being fully hail blocking activated. $$

 

[demarpaint]

Easy..................Steel plate rotated from under ground with a 30 second response time to being fully hail blocking activated. $$

That should have been figured into it one would think. I guess not.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

The very reason that policymakers are pushing EVs is that they can make a huge contribution in reducing carbon emissions and there is no market mechanism which can achieve this. I'm not going to go into the importance of this, since I don't want this post deleted nor do I want this thread locked.
This is what is commonly known as the tragedy of the commons, a phrase coined by a nineteenth century British economist, Williams Foster Loyd based upon the abuse of common use grazing land. What does this mean? We all use the atmosphere but none of us own it, so no one has any personal stake in protecting it from damage. IOW, it is a common resource used by all and owned by none.
For those who proclaim that we should let the market decide, okay, then we must create a market.
Markets work based upon the price mechanism, so we'd have to create such a mechanism.
Easily done. As opposed to an EV mandate, we could just institute a carbon tax on every gallon of fuel sold. Free market actors would then be able to decide whether they'll pay that tax or adopt an EV instead. Not sure how high this tax would have to be, but let's say maybe a buck a gallon or maybe two.
Simple enough and any serious person who claims to believe in free markets should welcome such a policy.
Let's also knock off the claims that any factual reporting with which we disagree is driven by some agenda rather than by fact.

​

So you call taxiing only gas vehicles, free market?!

Why not equally tax all vehicles then?

And no mandate or rebate BS either.

 

[UncleDave]

Not sure why anyone would think ice vehicles and power plants wouldn't be around for a long time?

Pro EV guys way overestimate the speed of ices demise, but haven't delivered par on many levels - especially trucks.
Most have never towed anything, nor do they take long trips. Many buy into the greenwashing which makes this group even more annoying.

Anti EV guys whine endlessly about the mere existence of EV's and the pro EV'ers - while learning nothing about the actual vehicles outside of whats support their narrative. Most have never even driven much less road tripped an EV and cant actually contribute to dialog about them outside of their feeling.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Not sure why anyone would think ice vehicles and power plants wouldn't be around for a long time?

Pro EV guys way overestimate the speed of ices demise, but haven't delivered par on many levels - especially trucks.
Most have never towed anything, nor do they take long trips. Many buy into the greenwashing which makes this group even more annoying.

Anti EV guys whine endlessly about the mere existence of EV's and the pro EV'ers - while learning nothing about the actual vehicles outside of whats support their narrative. Most have never even driven much less road tripped an EV and cant actually contribute to dialog about them outside of their feeling.

I've driven a few tesla cars, which is why I hate them.
Before driving them I was excited to try them out.

 

[supton]

I've driven a few tesla cars, which is why I hate them.
Before driving them I was excited to try them out.

I passed up the chance to drive the electric Mustang, whatever it is called. I know I will like the idea, but it's best to leave it be for now. Someday... wife's Camry isn't an EV but as a hybrid I'm assuming it's close? I like it, 'cept for the all black interior and the big LCD display. But would love a nice quiet car to ride to work in...

 

[UncleDave]

I've driven a few tesla cars, which is why I hate them.
Before driving them I was excited to try them out.

Lots of other options.

 

[UncleDave]

Someday... wife's Camry isn't an EV but as a hybrid I'm assuming it's close?

Not really. A Full BEV is nothing like a CVT hybrid.

 

[JeffKeryk]

If I don't like a particuliar vehicle, the 1st thing I do is not buy it.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

I passed up the chance to drive the electric Mustang, whatever it is called. I know I will like the idea, but it's best to leave it be for now. Someday... wife's Camry isn't an EV but as a hybrid I'm assuming it's close? I like it, 'cept for the all black interior and the big LCD display. But would love a nice quiet car to ride to work in...

Better in some ways, like no range anxiety.

 

[alarmguy]

Lithium battery powered EVs are not the end all future of EVs.
Proponents in here have blinders on if they think it is. Lithium is a stepping stone to something far greater, lithium is as primitive as less acid and is not capable of replacing all or even most ICE vehicles.
Only people with vision know this and why the development of what comes after lithium will make that company the next greatest thing.

 

[y_p_w]

Lithium battery powered EVs are not the end all future of EVs.
Proponents in here have blinders on if they think it is. Lithium is a stepping stone to something far greater, lithium is as primitive as less acid and is not capable of replacing all or even most ICE vehicles.
Only people with vision know this and why the development of what comes after lithium will make that company the next greatest thing.

It’s got limitations obviously. But some sort of advance in batteries is going to have to be the next step. The electric motor part is actually the easiest. We have more than a century of electric motor driven vehicles like trains, trolley buses, forklifts, etc. The hard part was a self contained energy system.

I suppose inductive power from a road surface could be interesting other than the inefficiency. But obviously a better battery system would be preferable.

As it stands, current EVs are more than acceptable as commute vehicles and grocery getters. They don’t really need their drivetrain to warm up for highest efficiency. I think they may even be most efficient cold. I could make that one mile round trip to the corner market without feeling guilty about spewing fumes before a catalytic converter has time to warm up, and not worry that it’s bad for an ICE. And the motors are considerably more reliable than internal combustion engines, but the tradeoff is in battery degradation.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

 

[OVERKILL]

Lithium battery powered EVs are not the end all future of EVs.
Proponents in here have blinders on if they think it is. Lithium is a stepping stone to something far greater, lithium is as primitive as less acid and is not capable of replacing all or even most ICE vehicles.
Only people with vision know this and why the development of what comes after lithium will make that company the next greatest thing.

If you are hinting at solid state, recall that they are still lithium, just with a solid electrolyte. There is little if any power density increase and the issue has been, and still is, making them durable/reliable, which I posted in another thread. We know how to make solid state batteries, we've made them for quite a while, making them so that they'll be durable enough for a vehicle, that's the challenge.

Unless you discover an element that has superior characteristics to lithium, it's likely that lithium is going to underpin any high density storage tech where weight is an issue. That's why it replaced nickel-cadmium.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

 

[edyvw]

The confirmation bias is rampant around here. BITOGers want it to be true so badly that ICE vehicles will last another 100 years.

But pretty much everyone in the world is now scouring for lithium. Exxon is investing in a lithium field in Arkansas. And there's tons of research going on in alternate battery chemistries, like sodium and potassium ion. Research is also ongoing to increase energy density in batteries. The writing is on the wall, whether people want to see it or not is up to them.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...-bet-with-tetra-technologies-deal-2023-06-28/

https://www.mining-technology.com/n...ights-as-oil-majors-move-into-mineral-mining/

Did you actually read what I wrote, or you just jumped to make your point?

 

[alarmguy]

If you are hinting at solid state, recall that they are still lithium, just with a solid electrolyte. There is little if any power density increase and the issue has been, and still is, making them durable/reliable, which I posted in another thread. We know how to make solid state batteries, we've made them for quite a while, making them so that they'll be durable enough for a vehicle, that's the challenge.

Unless you discover an element that has superior characteristics to lithium, it's likely that lithium is going to underpin any high density storage tech where weight is an issue. That's why it replaced nickel-cadmium.

Not really, I’m hinting at a technology that we do not know of.
Meaning whatever technology development that will allow us to refuel or recharge as fast as gasoline while placing the least demand on the electric grid which currently is not capable of replacing any significant portion of gasoline use unless one considers an EV penetration rate of 10 or 15% significant as the grid in the USA is already taxed to the limits in many states. (pulling numbers out of thin air as an example)
Be that something like h2 or some other solution that we do not know but someone does someplace or like I say a full EV world won’t come to reality in our lifetime and the public being sold an expensive bag of goods.


Unrelated but interesting our electric co-op I just learned tonight started installing battery packs at all it’s substations in 01/2022
During peak hours where wholesale electricity cost the most, power from the battery packs supplement the power supply and recharge when electric cost less.
Pretty cool for a tiny co-op of less than 100,000 customers. 24 hours a day we pay 10 cents kWh

I’d love to know the manufacturer if it’s Tesla though I know nothing about the industry.
A comment on solid state, half the battle would be won if hurdles are overcome because fast charging would be a game changer if refueling could compete with gasoline. But we don’t have enough electricity in the USA or the infrastructure

 

[y_p_w]

Unless you discover an element that has superior characteristics to lithium, it's likely that lithium is going to underpin any high density storage tech where weight is an issue. That's why it replaced nickel-cadmium.

When were there any NiCad general purpose vehicles? Maybe forklifts?

The first production EV that started the current trend was the GM EV1, and the initial version used lead-acid batteries. A newer version used NiMH.

NiMH was around for a long time and is still being used while NiCad is barely used. I did take apart some stake lights that uses AAA NiCads. But other than that, my first cell phone (Nokia 5100 series) used NiMH and the first generation hybrids used NiMH.

 

[Torrid]

When were there any NiCad general purpose vehicles? Maybe forklifts?

The first production EV that started the current trend was the GM EV1, and the initial version used lead-acid batteries. A newer version used NiMH.

NiMH was around for a long time and is still being used while NiCad is barely used. I did take apart some stake lights that uses AAA NiCads. But other than that, my first cell phone (Nokia 5100 series) used NiMH and the first generation hybrids used NiMH.

I'm really not sure on that one. I think it was a timing thing with EVs. I could see the EV1 using them because of time it was produced. Lithium was the battery of choice by the time the Tesla came around and I do know the Roadster came to be after a development using some other converted test car that was changed to lithium as an experiment from lead acids. To me it sounded like lead acids were more widely accepted than NiMH for EVs, but prior to the EV1 there wasn't much in development that I'm aware of that weren't one off projects and most home builds were using lead acids.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

I'm really not sure on that one. I think it was a timing thing with EVs. I could see the EV1 using them because of time it was produced. Lithium was the battery of choice by the time the Tesla came around and I do know the Roadster came to be after a development using some other converted test car that was changed to lithium as an experiment from lead acids. To me it sounded like lead acids were more widely accepted than NiMH for EVs, but prior to the EV1 there wasn't much in development that I'm aware of that weren't one off projects and most home builds were using lead acids.

Excuse my ignorance, but was the ev1 a chevy product, axed for basically political reasons?
Seems to me if my memory is correct, long ago i saw a tv show about it.