Why ICE is here to stay for some time?

[Badgerstate]

Here is telling interview by CEO of Renault:
China is limiting export of raw materials

China has a monopoly on a lot of raw materials, and they are limiting exports.
This is why all those bans on EVs will be postponed, as the EU will be able to go all EVs only if they surrender their market.
Short of some major battery breakthroughs that would make China just another supplier, expect all those ICE bans to be postponed.

Thats one of the reasons but not the only. Part of it is the electric grid, part of it is because even once the last ICE car has been produced, youre still looking at probably 20 years before they are all off of the road. Part of it too is because the enthusiasts arent going to buy electric cars.
Whats going to happen most likely is that they are going to cut gas production so that its so expensive that its not cost-effective anymore and so many people are going to buy EVs that the manufacturers will decide its no longer worth it to produce them from a business standpoint, even if the governement doesnt follow through and outright ban them.

 

[edyvw]

Thats one of the reasons but not the only. Part of it is the electric grid, part of it is because even once the last ICE car has been produced, youre still looking at probably 20 years before they are all off of the road. Part of it too is because the enthusiasts arent going to buy electric cars.
Whats going to happen most likely is that they are going to cut gas production so that its so expensive that its not cost-effective anymore and so many people are going to buy EVs that the manufacturers will decide its no longer worth it to produce them from a business standpoint, even if the governement doesnt follow through and outright ban them.

As I said, there are numerous other reasons. What you stated we discussed a lot. But, this is IMO European CEO’s raising issues that will lead towards pressure on European Commission. And it is French CEO, a country that is best positioned when it comes to electric grid.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Internal combustion engines will still be made after I'm dead...so it doesn't matter to me after that.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I’d say it’s the biggest scam since whatever the legacy media was spouting yesterday, but yes, both the scams (lies) you mentioned certainly have endurance, don’t they?

So are you against EV's?

 

[IndyFan]

If we want to see significant reductions in carbon released into the atmosphere then personal transportation is an obvious target.
With EVs, we still get to go where we want when we want in our own personal cars.
By mandating EVs, governments can guarantee a market for them and all the needed tech and infrastructure to support this guaranteed market will follow.
As always, money rules and the money will be spent on EVs. I know we'll see a lot of whataboutism and other gaslighting, but the reality is that EVs are the future of personal transportation.

Sounds like a centrally planned economy. History has shown a poor track record for that.

 

[fdcg27]

Sounds like a centrally planned economy. History has shown a poor track record for that.

Brother, I don't know how to break this to you, but the government here was regulating trade of all sorts a couple of centuries before you were born.

 

[supton]

Brother, I don't know how to break this to you, but the government here was regulating trade of all sorts a couple of centuries before you were born.

I believe 1791 would be the date? Maybe before, if you take into account import duty.

Whiskey Rebellion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A source of government revenue was needed to pay the respectable amount due to the previous bondholders to whom the debt was owed. By December 1790, Hamilton believed that import duties, which were the government's primary source of revenue, had been raised as high as feasible. He therefore promoted passage of an excise tax on domestically produced distilled spirits. This was to be the first tax levied by the national government on a domestic product. The transportation costs per gallon were higher for farmers removed from eastern urban centers, so the per-gallon profit was reduced disproportionately by the per-gallon tax on distillation of domestic alcohol such as whiskey. The excise became known as the "whiskey tax." Taxes were politically unpopular, and Hamilton believed that the whiskey excise was a luxury tax and would be the least objectionable tax that the government could levy. In this, he had the support of some social reformers, who hoped that a "sin tax" would raise public awareness about the harmful effects of alcohol. The whiskey excise act, sometimes known as the "Whiskey Act", became law in March 1791. George Washington defined the revenue districts, appointed the revenue supervisors and inspectors, and set their pay in November 1791.

 

[ME_Andy]

Over 90% of new cars in Norway and Iceland are electric now. 25% in England, 15% in Germany, 35% in China, 7% in the US. They're getting better, cheaper, and more common all the time.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

If we want to see significant reductions in carbon released into the atmosphere then personal transportation is an obvious target.
With EVs, we still get to go where we want when we want in our own personal cars.
By mandating EVs, governments can guarantee a market for them and all the needed tech and infrastructure to support this guaranteed market will follow.
As always, money rules and the money will be spent on EVs. I know we'll see a lot of whataboutism and other gaslighting, but the reality is that EVs are the future of personal transportation.

EVs will literally have the shortest lifetime of all personal transportation modes. Horses were good for a few thousand years, trains for about 80, ICEs for about 120, yet EVs MAY get 25-30 years as a mainstream transportation even with mandates before being superceded, and by then all of us will be dead.

Our grandkids will be left with public transit and self-driving cars that ride on electric lines laid into the pavement, like the magnetic racetracks we had as kids in the late 70s and early 80s.

The ICE is dead, long live the king of kings!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Over 90% of new cars in Norway and Iceland are electric now. 25% in England, 15% in Germany, 35% in China, 7% in the US. They're getting better, cheaper, and more common all the time.

While all that may be true as a result of mandates, the underlying truth is, without mandates, subsidies, and tax breaks, the take rate would be a fraction of what it currently is. The artificial process of forcing people into something that only a few would want can only last so long, whether it’s from the lack of money or the lack of political capital.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

When in Norway April of this year, visiting with relatives, not one car i rode in was an ev. 0 of my relatives own an ev.
Gas cars still largely dominate the road ways there, and diesel trucks.
I never saw a single electric powered boat in Norway either. The planes I rode to get to Norway and back all burned jet fuel.
Of the electric cars I did see there, very very few were teslas. The car I borrowed from my cousin to drive around in was a gas powered Audi.
Pull into a parking lot in Norway, and maybe 2% of the vehicles parked around me were electric.
My aunt was car shopping at the time I was there, she was looking at volvo and audi, gas powered cars.
She wasn't shopping for any ev cars.
Same trip I flew to Moscow, and I think that in 6 days of being in Moscow, I saw 1 ev.

Ev cars are far from taking over the world's roadways.

Yesterday I drove 4.5 hours, kept my eyes open for any ev vehicles, saw exactly 0 on the roads, or in the parking lots i could see.

While they maybe common in some USA cities and parking lots, they sure have a long way to go in many other countries, including Norway, where they are a small fraction of the vehicles out driving around.
Norway also lacks the electricity to charge a country full of evs.

 

[IndyFan]

Brother, I don't know how to break this to you, but the government here was regulating trade of all sorts a couple of centuries before you were born.

Regulating trade is not the same as a centrally planned economy. Brother.

 

[edyvw]

Over 90% of new cars in Norway and Iceland are electric now. 25% in England, 15% in Germany, 35% in China, 7% in the US. They're getting better, cheaper, and more common all the time.

Germany is in decline.
Norway is not a good indicator. It is very specific market, a small market, etc.
What happens in Germany, Italy, France, Spain, UK matters.

Common is one thing, mainstream is another. VW already said that unless EV priced like today's Opel Corsa is available, it will not work.

 

[edyvw]

Regulating trade is not the same as a centrally planned economy. Brother.

And this is FAR from it.

 

[Mainia]

I’ll toss my 2 cents in. EVs don’t “solve” any energy crisis, they simply move it out of most peoples’ neighborhoods (NIMBY’s rejoice!). EVs not only will exponentially tax the already shabby grid, they’re still using plenty of hydrocarbon-based fuels to generate electricity to feed them.

On top of that, lithium and other precious elements absolutely destroy the landscape and will be multitudes of times harder to police environmentally, to the detriment or destruction of ecosystems around them. And where is all the battery waste going to go, and remediation plans after a mine is closed will probably be shuffled onto the taxpayer.

This isn’t even going into the ethics of “mandates” and artificially crippling capitalism. The loss of freedoms is usually gently sloped and soft underfoot… probably not coincidentally, exactly the same style path that leads one into a life of sin.

Don’t forget banning all natural gas furnaces, stoves and water heaters has been propose. ONLY electric heating electric stoves, and electric heat hot water heaters will be allowed. A certain group of people who can “make laws of change“ are “ bat snickers CRAZY“.

 

[edyvw]

Don’t forget banning all natural gas furnaces, stoves and water heaters has been propose. ONLY electric heating electric stoves, and electric heat hot water heaters will be allowed. A certain group of people who can “make laws of change“ are “ bat snickers CRAZY“.

Which is not a bad idea if electricity is cheap. I am going to replace my gas stoves and water heater with electric when they break down. Why? Bcs. Solar panels and abundant sun in CO.
Heating, on the other hand does not make sense. And as far as I remember, that was not in that proposal.

The problem is that we really messed up nuclear power. France on the other hand has it squared.

 

[Mainia]

So are you against EV's?

I am not, but let the market dictate who wants to buy them. No mandates from the fools in government. The rich can afford them, let them save the planet. The poor can’t. 30 years from now if it is the hot ticket and infrastructure is built for it, I am in ( I will be dead by then). Where are the 30+ nuclear plants in the USA and 200% more copper than we have used for all of the USA power grid going to come from? Used for EV motors and fully upgrading JUST the USA whole power grid? Not to mention the copper needed for worlds power grids.

 

[demarpaint]

I am not, but let the market dictate who wants to buy them. No mandates from the fools in government. The rich can afford them, let them save the planet. The poor can’t. 30 years from now if it is the hot ticket and infrastructure is built for it, I am in ( I will be dead by then). Where are the 30+ nuclear plants in the USA and 200% more copper than we have used for all of the USA power grid going to come from? Used for EV motors and fully upgrading JUST the USA whole power grid? Not to mention the copper needed for worlds power grids.

I feel the same way as you. When someone tries to force something on me I push back, I've done so as a child and I'm not going to stop now. I had a good laugh seeing what hail did to a solar farm in Nebraska, I guess the engineers didn't figure hail could damage the panels. For this green pipe dream to work they're going to need a lot more than solar and wind. Nuclear is the key, and many fear it.

 

[IndyFan]

And this is FAR from it.

Really? I respectfully disagree. The government trying to create and/or manipulate supply and demand is an element of central planning. That certainly quacks, swims, and looks like a duck. Because it IS a duck.

 

[alarmguy]

If we want to see significant reductions in carbon released into the atmosphere then personal transportation is an obvious target.

That is just it. I could care less about what the media says and do not want to send the standard of living backwards in order for some grand plan to reduce carbon emissions and allow the next nation to become the super power.
I am willing to bet that 80% of Americans do not actually understand or care to understand anything except what they are told by the media. Thoughout history entire countries have fallen due to ignorance.
So no, count me out on that first statement. I dont want a significant reduction nor do I want my choices limited. But thank you anyway!

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