Well, I got these 5qt jugs of Peak for $3 each, and that's what my Geo Tracker is getting.
Why even use conventional oil anymore?
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The only reason I'm not using conventional dino oil is because I'm buying synthetic blend oil for less than dino oil. I am a little more comfortable going 5,000 to 6,000 miles on the blend than I am with the straight dino, but it's not the reason I do so.
As others have said, I don't like the idea of running any oil for extended periods of time, like 10,000 miles. True enough, a good synthetic oil will last 10,000, but I don't want the ever accumulating contaminants running through my engine for 10,000 miles, too.
Now, if I bought vehicles when they were brand new and knew the history and had ran synthetic from day one I'd feel better about 10,000 mile synthetic OCIs, but I don't buy new off the lot. I prefer for someone else to take that big financial hit.
Well designed, well maintained engines have been going well over 200,000 miles for a very long time on conventional dino oils and until I have an engine that has to have synthetic, or if it makes sense from a financial point of view, I won't be using it.
As others have said, I don't like the idea of running any oil for extended periods of time, like 10,000 miles. True enough, a good synthetic oil will last 10,000, but I don't want the ever accumulating contaminants running through my engine for 10,000 miles, too.
Now, if I bought vehicles when they were brand new and knew the history and had ran synthetic from day one I'd feel better about 10,000 mile synthetic OCIs, but I don't buy new off the lot. I prefer for someone else to take that big financial hit.
Well designed, well maintained engines have been going well over 200,000 miles for a very long time on conventional dino oils and until I have an engine that has to have synthetic, or if it makes sense from a financial point of view, I won't be using it.
Originally Posted By: cutter
Well, I got these 5qt jugs of Peak for $3 each, and that's what my Geo Tracker is getting.
Ya, I was able to nab 4 of those. Currently running one in my truck (Vortec 350) and my moms Jeep (2000 Cherokee, 4.0 I6). 5k on the Jeep, and I could care less if that thing self destructed tomorrow. More excuse for my mom to get a better vehicle
Well, I got these 5qt jugs of Peak for $3 each, and that's what my Geo Tracker is getting.
Ya, I was able to nab 4 of those. Currently running one in my truck (Vortec 350) and my moms Jeep (2000 Cherokee, 4.0 I6). 5k on the Jeep, and I could care less if that thing self destructed tomorrow. More excuse for my mom to get a better vehicle
Originally Posted By: KenO
Currently running one in my truck (Vortec 350) and my moms Jeep (2000 Cherokee, 4.0 I6). 5k on the Jeep, and I could care less if that thing self destructed tomorrow. More excuse for my mom to get a better vehicle
Horrors!
Say it ain't so!
Nothing better than a Jeep, except maybe two Jeeps.
Currently running one in my truck (Vortec 350) and my moms Jeep (2000 Cherokee, 4.0 I6). 5k on the Jeep, and I could care less if that thing self destructed tomorrow. More excuse for my mom to get a better vehicle
Horrors!
Nothing better than a Jeep, except maybe two Jeeps.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: KenO
Currently running one in my truck (Vortec 350) and my moms Jeep (2000 Cherokee, 4.0 I6). 5k on the Jeep, and I could care less if that thing self destructed tomorrow. More excuse for my mom to get a better vehicle
Horrors!
Say it ain't so!
Nothing better than a Jeep, except maybe two Jeeps.
Ehh, idk about that. Great offroad and utilitarian vehicles, but hers is plagued with 2 bad issues. One, it's a rust bucket from NY. 2, it's a 2000 and just now has 125k miles on it, so it doens't get driven THAT much, and she's had some major issues with it. It cracked a head, it's had odd wheel bearing failures, etc. I'll be happy when it's gone and she's into a Subaru instead.
Originally Posted By: KenO
Currently running one in my truck (Vortec 350) and my moms Jeep (2000 Cherokee, 4.0 I6). 5k on the Jeep, and I could care less if that thing self destructed tomorrow. More excuse for my mom to get a better vehicle
Horrors!
Nothing better than a Jeep, except maybe two Jeeps.
Ehh, idk about that. Great offroad and utilitarian vehicles, but hers is plagued with 2 bad issues. One, it's a rust bucket from NY. 2, it's a 2000 and just now has 125k miles on it, so it doens't get driven THAT much, and she's had some major issues with it. It cracked a head, it's had odd wheel bearing failures, etc. I'll be happy when it's gone and she's into a Subaru instead.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: otis24
In addition to extended drains, the other benefits of synthetic are better cold flow/start-up protection and better resistance against fuel dilution, in addition to extended drains. As stated, the price differnce between conventional and synthetic can be pretty minimual these days, especially if you use coupons/rebates.
How is synthetic going to better resist fuel dilution? Synthetics will not magically repel fuel. They will absorb it along with moisture and other contaminant just like any other oil because that's what oils are designed to do. And since fuel lacks lubricating properties, it's going to deteriorate synthetic oil just the same as conventional because synthetics do not have better lubricating properties over conventional.
I don't know what the condemnation point is as far as fuel dilution is concerned, but whatever percentage that is, it will not vary depending on the oil's base stock. A testing lab will condemn the oil for removal just the same upon seeing certain percentage of fuel in oil.
What modern engines have issues with fuel dilution?
Any vehicle driven occasionally on the freeway should burn off fuel and water.
Different engines than what we are talking about here, but obviously you have not kept up with the issues of fuel dilution pertaining to biodiesel. Even the National Biodiesel Board has acknowledged fuel dilution from bio becoming an issue that diesel owners need to keep an eye on. Since bio of 10% or more is almost the only thing available anymore, I have been getting some fuel dilution issues with my Detroit Series 60 12.7 pre-egr engine that can only be attributed to bio. Bio has a higher vapor and flash point, so that it does not "cook off" as nicely as petro fuel at normal operating temps.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: otis24
In addition to extended drains, the other benefits of synthetic are better cold flow/start-up protection and better resistance against fuel dilution, in addition to extended drains. As stated, the price differnce between conventional and synthetic can be pretty minimual these days, especially if you use coupons/rebates.
How is synthetic going to better resist fuel dilution? Synthetics will not magically repel fuel. They will absorb it along with moisture and other contaminant just like any other oil because that's what oils are designed to do. And since fuel lacks lubricating properties, it's going to deteriorate synthetic oil just the same as conventional because synthetics do not have better lubricating properties over conventional.
I don't know what the condemnation point is as far as fuel dilution is concerned, but whatever percentage that is, it will not vary depending on the oil's base stock. A testing lab will condemn the oil for removal just the same upon seeing certain percentage of fuel in oil.
What modern engines have issues with fuel dilution?
Any vehicle driven occasionally on the freeway should burn off fuel and water.
Different engines than what we are talking about here, but obviously you have not kept up with the issues of fuel dilution pertaining to biodiesel. Even the National Biodiesel Board has acknowledged fuel dilution from bio becoming an issue that diesel owners need to keep an eye on. Since bio of 10% or more is almost the only thing available anymore, I have been getting some fuel dilution issues with my Detroit Series 60 12.7 pre-egr engine that can only be attributed to bio. Bio has a higher vapor and flash point, so that it does not "cook off" as nicely as petro fuel at normal operating temps.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: otis24
In addition to extended drains, the other benefits of synthetic are better cold flow/start-up protection and better resistance against fuel dilution, in addition to extended drains. As stated, the price differnce between conventional and synthetic can be pretty minimual these days, especially if you use coupons/rebates.
How is synthetic going to better resist fuel dilution? Synthetics will not magically repel fuel. They will absorb it along with moisture and other contaminant just like any other oil because that's what oils are designed to do. And since fuel lacks lubricating properties, it's going to deteriorate synthetic oil just the same as conventional because synthetics do not have better lubricating properties over conventional.
I don't know what the condemnation point is as far as fuel dilution is concerned, but whatever percentage that is, it will not vary depending on the oil's base stock. A testing lab will condemn the oil for removal just the same upon seeing certain percentage of fuel in oil.
What modern engines have issues with fuel dilution?
Any vehicle driven occasionally on the freeway should burn off fuel and water.
Different engines than what we are talking about here, but obviously you have not kept up with the issues of fuel dilution pertaining to biodiesel. Even the National Biodiesel Board has acknowledged fuel dilution from bio becoming an issue that diesel owners need to keep an eye on. Since bio of 10% or more is almost the only thing available anymore, I have been getting some fuel dilution issues with my Detroit Series 60 12.7 pre-egr engine that can only be attributed to bio. Bio has a higher vapor and flash point, so that it does not "cook off" as nicely as petro fuel at normal operating temps.
The subject of this board is gasoline-powered vehicles and the motor oil that goes in them. That's was the basis of my comment.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: otis24
In addition to extended drains, the other benefits of synthetic are better cold flow/start-up protection and better resistance against fuel dilution, in addition to extended drains. As stated, the price differnce between conventional and synthetic can be pretty minimual these days, especially if you use coupons/rebates.
How is synthetic going to better resist fuel dilution? Synthetics will not magically repel fuel. They will absorb it along with moisture and other contaminant just like any other oil because that's what oils are designed to do. And since fuel lacks lubricating properties, it's going to deteriorate synthetic oil just the same as conventional because synthetics do not have better lubricating properties over conventional.
I don't know what the condemnation point is as far as fuel dilution is concerned, but whatever percentage that is, it will not vary depending on the oil's base stock. A testing lab will condemn the oil for removal just the same upon seeing certain percentage of fuel in oil.
What modern engines have issues with fuel dilution?
Any vehicle driven occasionally on the freeway should burn off fuel and water.
Different engines than what we are talking about here, but obviously you have not kept up with the issues of fuel dilution pertaining to biodiesel. Even the National Biodiesel Board has acknowledged fuel dilution from bio becoming an issue that diesel owners need to keep an eye on. Since bio of 10% or more is almost the only thing available anymore, I have been getting some fuel dilution issues with my Detroit Series 60 12.7 pre-egr engine that can only be attributed to bio. Bio has a higher vapor and flash point, so that it does not "cook off" as nicely as petro fuel at normal operating temps.
The subject of this board is gasoline-powered vehicles and the motor oil that goes in them. That's was the basis of my comment.
For what possible reason would I want to spend a premium for synthetic when conventional will do exactly the same thing for my vehicles?
Using the original posters' synthetic price and the actual price I paid for the oil that I changed last weekend my oil cost would have been about $58 more than it was for 8 gallons of oil-a mix of Rotella 15W-40, Havoline 5W-30, and Valvoline 5W-20.
My fall oil change is about 8 gallons, my spring oil change is about 5 gallons, so using the original posters I would spend almost $100/year extra.
In 10 years, if prices remain the same, that's almost $1000 I'll have saved by not following the original posters' suggestion. And if I were to use a synthetic, I'd still use about the same amount of oil each spring and fall, my vehicles would all run exactly the same, with synthetic they'd all start just fine in the winter (just like they do on conventional), and I'm sure I'll never have a lubrication related failure with either.
So stchman, tell me, for what possible reason would I want to waste money on synthetics?
Using the original posters' synthetic price and the actual price I paid for the oil that I changed last weekend my oil cost would have been about $58 more than it was for 8 gallons of oil-a mix of Rotella 15W-40, Havoline 5W-30, and Valvoline 5W-20.
My fall oil change is about 8 gallons, my spring oil change is about 5 gallons, so using the original posters I would spend almost $100/year extra.
In 10 years, if prices remain the same, that's almost $1000 I'll have saved by not following the original posters' suggestion. And if I were to use a synthetic, I'd still use about the same amount of oil each spring and fall, my vehicles would all run exactly the same, with synthetic they'd all start just fine in the winter (just like they do on conventional), and I'm sure I'll never have a lubrication related failure with either.
So stchman, tell me, for what possible reason would I want to waste money on synthetics?
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
So stchman, tell me, for what possible reason would I want to waste money on synthetics?
It would only be a waste if you did not run the oil to zero life which in the case of a synthetic would normally be more than double that of conventional. However, the price difference between the two is not always double and therefore it would not be a waste of money, but instead savings.
So stchman, tell me, for what possible reason would I want to waste money on synthetics?
It would only be a waste if you did not run the oil to zero life which in the case of a synthetic would normally be more than double that of conventional. However, the price difference between the two is not always double and therefore it would not be a waste of money, but instead savings.
I too struggle with this.
The thing is, if your engines as you use them aren't stressing conventional oil in any way, then syn is no more than overkill.
OTOH, syn is often available at a deal.
When you can buy PP for $11.49/jug after MIR, why wouldn't you?
It really comes down to personal choice.
If you really want to part with a few more bucks for syn at regular price, then why not?
If you prefer the lower cost of conventional, then go for it.
Your engine will be fine either way.
The thing is, if your engines as you use them aren't stressing conventional oil in any way, then syn is no more than overkill.
OTOH, syn is often available at a deal.
When you can buy PP for $11.49/jug after MIR, why wouldn't you?
It really comes down to personal choice.
If you really want to part with a few more bucks for syn at regular price, then why not?
If you prefer the lower cost of conventional, then go for it.
Your engine will be fine either way.
You should see the markup for synpower... 6 qts and filter almost $95... I use PU and PP if I am on that rotation in my fusion and go the 10k the OLM has set with no problems. Ran synpower for a good 80k plus and never had an issue. Easier to get high quality oil, great filter and spend some wrench time on my own car for around $30 depending on sale. No way I would ever spend that much to change oil. If I needed a change if I was in need somewhere out of town just sign me up for a basic PYB change or VWB and put my filter on. Not worth the $25 when I can do syn for that and Dino for less. Even my stash of motorcraft blend was $15 a 5 qt jug.
The cost factor is really not as big of an issue as it once was. Synthetics, except for the boutique brands, have moderated considerably in relation to conventionals. It helps, somewhat, to keep things in perspective. I would not call using any synthetic, regardless of label, as overkill. Not when folks will have no problem dropping hundreds and hundreds of dollars to do things like lift their pickup even though the most "off road" they will ever see is a gravel road, or try to find the most expensive shocks to put on a vehicle even though they are not due for shocks yet and the vehicle is just used to commute, just because they look cool and the name brand and their friends are doing it. Then there is the tuning the vehicle for some sort of performance so that they can pretend the traffic lights are Christmas Tree lights at a NHRA event and race to the next light because they are afraid it might actually turn green before they get there and they want to repeat the process. When people will throw money at doing stuff that has no appreciable benefit and is only to stroke their ego while acting like old man Scrooge when it comes to an oil change, that is something that seems stranger than if the oil they use is overkill. But such is human nature.
I must be rolling in the dough. I have no problem buying 5qt of M1 for $25 over conventional. Heck, I don't even know what conventional costs anymore.
If I had 8 gallons to change, maybe I'd think differently. In a year I only do 4 gallons. All M1.
Gentlemen, please, follow behind me and pick up the bills that drop off of me...
If I had 8 gallons to change, maybe I'd think differently. In a year I only do 4 gallons. All M1.
Gentlemen, please, follow behind me and pick up the bills that drop off of me...
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Old people, and people with multiple cars who only drive 4k a year on their car, why waste $ on synthetic? I got about 125 quarts for on average .42 a quart at O'Reilly's during their coupon sale in May,
Exactly! My original and extended warranty require oil changes every six months or 5,000 miles. In six months time it may have 200 miles on the oil but it MUST be changed. Why would I pay for synthetic??
Old people, and people with multiple cars who only drive 4k a year on their car, why waste $ on synthetic? I got about 125 quarts for on average .42 a quart at O'Reilly's during their coupon sale in May,
Exactly! My original and extended warranty require oil changes every six months or 5,000 miles. In six months time it may have 200 miles on the oil but it MUST be changed. Why would I pay for synthetic??
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Old people, and people with multiple cars who only drive 4k a year on their car, why waste $ on synthetic? I got about 125 quarts for on average .42 a quart at O'Reilly's during their coupon sale in May,
Exactly! My original and extended warranty require oil changes every six months or 5,000 miles. In six months time it may have 200 miles on the oil but it MUST be changed. Why would I pay for synthetic??
Yes - I agree that you are one case where synthetic makes little sense. OTH, if you're changing dino with 200 miles on it every 6 months - IMO that's crazy. I would like to see any warranty company argue that in court that 7 months and 250 miles on your oil caused any oil related failure on your engine. Even once a year is probably too often with those kind of miles. But back to the argument of synthetic vs dino. The synthetic appeal to me is not having to change the oil. What's your time worth? I don't like changing oil, synthetic is worth it in most cases.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Old people, and people with multiple cars who only drive 4k a year on their car, why waste $ on synthetic? I got about 125 quarts for on average .42 a quart at O'Reilly's during their coupon sale in May,
Exactly! My original and extended warranty require oil changes every six months or 5,000 miles. In six months time it may have 200 miles on the oil but it MUST be changed. Why would I pay for synthetic??
Yes - I agree that you are one case where synthetic makes little sense. OTH, if you're changing dino with 200 miles on it every 6 months - IMO that's crazy. I would like to see any warranty company argue that in court that 7 months and 250 miles on your oil caused any oil related failure on your engine. Even once a year is probably too often with those kind of miles. But back to the argument of synthetic vs dino. The synthetic appeal to me is not having to change the oil. What's your time worth? I don't like changing oil, synthetic is worth it in most cases.
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Old people, and people with multiple cars who only drive 4k a year on their car, why waste $ on synthetic? I got about 125 quarts for on average .42 a quart at O'Reilly's during their coupon sale in May,
Exactly! My original and extended warranty require oil changes every six months or 5,000 miles. In six months time it may have 200 miles on the oil but it MUST be changed. Why would I pay for synthetic??
^ This. Warranty requirements that dictate short'ish OCI's. Regularly maintained cars with moderate OCI's will rarely see the benefits through the life of the car. I've seen many engines go hundreds of thousands of miles on legacy oils. Today's oils are even better.
Now, talking about cold starts, it's hard to argue the benefit of syn 0wxx's. And I'm not referring to cold starts for my southern friends
PS: It's ridiculous to compare the sale price of syn to regular price of dino. I got 5L of VWB for $9.88. I assume there is even better deals out there.
PPS: Cars that burn oil like crazy. No sense in feeding it syn.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Old people, and people with multiple cars who only drive 4k a year on their car, why waste $ on synthetic? I got about 125 quarts for on average .42 a quart at O'Reilly's during their coupon sale in May,
Exactly! My original and extended warranty require oil changes every six months or 5,000 miles. In six months time it may have 200 miles on the oil but it MUST be changed. Why would I pay for synthetic??
^ This. Warranty requirements that dictate short'ish OCI's. Regularly maintained cars with moderate OCI's will rarely see the benefits through the life of the car. I've seen many engines go hundreds of thousands of miles on legacy oils. Today's oils are even better.
Now, talking about cold starts, it's hard to argue the benefit of syn 0wxx's. And I'm not referring to cold starts for my southern friends
PS: It's ridiculous to compare the sale price of syn to regular price of dino. I got 5L of VWB for $9.88. I assume there is even better deals out there.
PPS: Cars that burn oil like crazy. No sense in feeding it syn.
Here in Colombia Mobil 1 0W40 goes for USD 20 for a quart. My car needs 9 quarts....... you don't need to be a math teacher. If you want to go to the original brand for my car, it's Castrol Edge......25 bucks a quart, just crazy...... I've been using Mobil Delvac MX and John Deere 15w40 and with 215k km still going strong, hope nothing happens...... I make my oil changes every 3750 miles....
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
For what possible reason would I want to spend a premium for synthetic when conventional will do exactly the same thing for my vehicles?
Using the original posters' synthetic price and the actual price I paid for the oil that I changed last weekend my oil cost would have been about $58 more than it was for 8 gallons of oil-a mix of Rotella 15W-40, Havoline 5W-30, and Valvoline 5W-20.
My fall oil change is about 8 gallons, my spring oil change is about 5 gallons, so using the original posters I would spend almost $100/year extra.
In 10 years, if prices remain the same, that's almost $1000 I'll have saved by not following the original posters' suggestion. And if I were to use a synthetic, I'd still use about the same amount of oil each spring and fall, my vehicles would all run exactly the same, with synthetic they'd all start just fine in the winter (just like they do on conventional), and I'm sure I'll never have a lubrication related failure with either.
So stchman, tell me, for what possible reason would I want to waste money on synthetics?
Let's do the math. You do agree that synthetics can go for longer OCIs than conventional. Let's do 5K for conventional and 8K for synthetic and 5 quarts of oil. Assume an oil filter
is $3.97.
Let's use Walmart prices for 5 quart jugs of oil. I will use my sales tax rate of 7.55%
Mobil 1 5W-30 - $24.97
Mobil Super 5000 - $14.17
Purolator oil filter - $3.97
Synthetic oil change: ($24.97 + $3.97) * 1.0755 = $31.12
Conventional oil change: ($14.17 + $3.97) * 1.0755 = $19.51
Let's do a study over 40K miles.
8 oil changes with conventional, 5 oil changes with synthetic.
40,000 miles
5 synthetic oil changes would cost: $155.60
8 conventional oil changes would cost: $156.08
This is just raw money, but what is your time worth? I don't see how you are LOSING money buy using synthetic oil when you actually saved a litle bit of money and a LOT of time.
For what possible reason would I want to spend a premium for synthetic when conventional will do exactly the same thing for my vehicles?
Using the original posters' synthetic price and the actual price I paid for the oil that I changed last weekend my oil cost would have been about $58 more than it was for 8 gallons of oil-a mix of Rotella 15W-40, Havoline 5W-30, and Valvoline 5W-20.
My fall oil change is about 8 gallons, my spring oil change is about 5 gallons, so using the original posters I would spend almost $100/year extra.
In 10 years, if prices remain the same, that's almost $1000 I'll have saved by not following the original posters' suggestion. And if I were to use a synthetic, I'd still use about the same amount of oil each spring and fall, my vehicles would all run exactly the same, with synthetic they'd all start just fine in the winter (just like they do on conventional), and I'm sure I'll never have a lubrication related failure with either.
So stchman, tell me, for what possible reason would I want to waste money on synthetics?
Let's do the math. You do agree that synthetics can go for longer OCIs than conventional. Let's do 5K for conventional and 8K for synthetic and 5 quarts of oil. Assume an oil filter
is $3.97.
Let's use Walmart prices for 5 quart jugs of oil. I will use my sales tax rate of 7.55%
Mobil 1 5W-30 - $24.97
Mobil Super 5000 - $14.17
Purolator oil filter - $3.97
Synthetic oil change: ($24.97 + $3.97) * 1.0755 = $31.12
Conventional oil change: ($14.17 + $3.97) * 1.0755 = $19.51
Let's do a study over 40K miles.
8 oil changes with conventional, 5 oil changes with synthetic.
40,000 miles
5 synthetic oil changes would cost: $155.60
8 conventional oil changes would cost: $156.08
This is just raw money, but what is your time worth? I don't see how you are LOSING money buy using synthetic oil when you actually saved a litle bit of money and a LOT of time.
I finally have reasons that justify buying synthetic. 5w-20 exceeds Dexos 1 standard. $5 off Valvoline jug coupon @ Walmart(expired) and $19.99 oc special at NAPA. (Offer expires 11/17/13.)
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