Why does Honda insist on using timing belts instead of chains?

[grampi]

They don't necessarily have to all out fail. Many get extremely noisy when the guides and tensioners get all chewed up, (which are plastic), to the point people bring in their cars for it. Then, the only solution is a replacement. Which is actually better. When timing chains fail on an interference engine, (which most are today), it completely trashes the engine, requiring a complete engine replacement.

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I have never heard of an engine getting trashed due to a timing belt failure.

Then you aren't listening...

 

[KGMtech]

The end of ICE new designs is here, so our wishes to what method for driving the cams is going to fall on deaf ears.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Sorry this does not go all the way to current date. Its the best list. All Hondas do not have belts. I have had them with belts and chains. Serviced / replaced the belts as the books instructions. Never had trouble or could tell the difference. Hope this helps. I always do try to look up and research which is in our cars as soon as we get them.
https://autoreplacementcosts.com/honda-civic-belt-chain-list/

 

[grampi]

Sorry this does not go all the way to current date. Its the best list. All Hondas do not have belts. I have had them with belts and chains. Serviced / replaced the belts as the books instructions. Never had trouble or could tell the difference. Hope this helps. I always do try to look up and research which is in our cars as soon as we get them.
https://autoreplacementcosts.com/honda-civic-belt-chain-list/

I know not all Hondas have belts, never said they did. I just think using belts in any engine is inferior to using chains...

 

[supton]

Maybe I should put this a different way. 100% of belts need to be replaced. What percentage of chain drive engines have to have their chains, or chain related parts replaced? If this number can be obtained, I'm sure it's nowhere near 100%...

Sure, but… How many cars need tires? brakes? windshields? and when is their replacement acceptable as opposed too often.

Manual transmission versus automatic. One “will” need a clutch while the other “will” need a rebuild. Which is better?

 

[bcossa2020]

………

My 1974 Fiat X 1/9 broke the timing belt with 64000 miles on it and bent up the valves. Besides learning all about ignition timing, heads, and later learning what happens if you don’t torque the head bol properly, I learned to see if engines are interference/non interference and if they have a belt vs a chain. It does not affect my car shopping habits, however.....
My guess would be either economics of the belt or a proven successful history.....

 

[RooflessVW]

I'd rather a tried and true engine with a belt than something new with a chain.

As a VW/Audi enthusiast I've seen my share of chains fail, and they're often at the back of the engine.

 

[Kuato]

No one has mentioned that when replacing the belt, the water pump normally gets replaced as well. With the way people ignore maintenance, perhaps Honda sees this as a way to increase longevity.

If properly made and oiled [insert viscosity discussion here] chains last the life of the engine. It is usually the guides that have an issue.

 

[billt460]

If properly made and oiled [insert viscosity discussion here] chains last the life of the engine. It is usually the guides that have an issue.

Perhaps, but you have to tear into the same amount of crap, including the cover, to get to those, as you do the chain.

 

[RooflessVW]

No one has mentioned that when replacing the belt, the water pump normally gets replaced as well. With the way people ignore maintenance, perhaps Honda sees this as a way to increase longevity.

If properly made and oiled [insert viscosity discussion here] chains last the life of the engine. It is usually the guides that have an issue.

Yeah how about ford putting the water pump inside the timing case?

You get to replace the timing system with the water pump!

 

[billt460]

Yeah how about ford putting the water pump inside the timing case? You get to replace the timing system with the water pump!

Not to mention on the 5.0 you have those 2 long 1/4" bolts that go through the timing cover, and just LOVE to seize and snap off. Unless you know which ones they are, and use great care loosening, then tightening, in an attempt to get them out without breaking them.

Put a guy on the job who has not experienced a water pump removal on that engine, and it's all but a guarantee he'll go straight gorilla, and snap them right off. Especially if they've been in there for any length of time. Then the PITA officially begins.

 

[dishdude]

A lot of the industry was using timing belts in the 80's and 90's because they were cheap, lighter and quieter. The industry realized they suck and as they redesigned engines switched back to chains. The Honda V6 is almost an antique at this point which is why it's still using a belt. Probably the last V6 Honda will produce.

 

[Pew]

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I have never heard of an engine getting trashed due to a timing belt failure.

I can be your first one then . The 1.0L ecoboost in my focus had a bathed-in-oil timing belt which broke at ~216K miles. It was an interference engine as well so there wasn't any way to save the engine after. Granted it was the factory belt so it was really more my fault for not replacing it per preventative maintenance. They said they decided on a belt over a chain for the engine because of the lower friction (I think it was something like 3% improvement over a chain.)

The Evo had a timing chain but was revised to a stronger one after a couple years because of the possibility of the chain stretching within 100-150K miles. The guides are to be replaced at the same time as well. I never heard of the old or new timing chain breaking from too much power however.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I know not all Hondas have belts, never said they did. I just think using belts in any engine is inferior to using chains...

Sorry, did not accuse you of anything. I would rather a chain also.

 

[hrv]

No one has mentioned that when replacing the belt, the water pump normally gets replaced as well. With the way people ignore maintenance, perhaps Honda sees this as a way to increase longevity.

If properly made and oiled [insert viscosity discussion here] chains last the life of the engine. It is usually the guides that have an issue.

I think you are right on that... My 07 Accord with 386000 miles and no chain problems also had the originall water pump too....no heating or cooling problems and a dry weep hole on the water pump...

 

[JavierH19]

i prefer chains if theyre of decent quality. but if i had to choose between gm 3.6 chains or a belt i'd go with a belt in this case.

 

[grampi]

Sure, but… How many cars need tires? brakes? windshields? and when is their replacement acceptable as opposed too often.

Manual transmission versus automatic. One “will” need a clutch while the other “will” need a rebuild. Which is better?

What are the alternatives to tires, brakes, and windshields that never need to be replaced?

 

[Bjornviken]

watch this video on an Audi A8, this more than any other reason displays why a belt is superior to a chain.




the repair cost often exceeds the residual value of the car, sometimes in exponential means

Thats VW, cant make chains, so now they use belts. . .

 

[grampi]

A lot of the industry was using timing belts in the 80's and 90's because they were cheap, lighter and quieter. The industry realized they suck and as they redesigned engines switched back to chains. The Honda V6 is almost an antique at this point which is why it's still using a belt. Probably the last V6 Honda will produce.

Other than using a belt, the Honda V-6 is a great engine...

 

[Badgerstate]

I don't get it. Chains are far superior, yet Honda keeps using belts...makes no sense...

My Honda has a chain. *shrug*