Why does Ford have to make things so complicated?

[The Critic]

Tonight, I did some research on the recommended transmission fluid service intervals for MY2006 Fords. Here are my findings:

Passenger Cars:

Change the automatic transmission fluid only every 30,000 miles, under normal, everyday driving conditions, for all vehicles equipped with a 4F50N or 4F27E transmission. Vehicles equipped with the 4F50N or 4F27E transmission include the Focus, Freestar, Taurus, and Windstar

Change the automatic transmission fluid and high-pressure case filter every 60,000 miles, under normal, everyday driving conditions, for all vehicles equipped with a CVT transmission.

If your vehicle is equipped with neither a 4F50N nor 4F27E transmission, and is driven under normal, everyday driving conditions, change the automatic transmission fluid and filter every 150,000 miles. If your vehicle is equipped with a 4F50N or 4F27E transmission, even though you are changing the fluid only every 30,000 miles, the filter must still be replaced every 150,000 miles. Note: There is no transmission filter on the Aisin-Warner 6-spd transmission used in the Ford 500 vehicles.

SUVs/Trucks:
Change the automatic transmission fluid and remote case filter, every 30,000 miles, under all conditions, if your vehicle is equipped with a 5R110W (Torqshift) transmission, such as the one in 6.0 Powerstroke Diesels.

If your vehicle is not equipped with the 5R110W (Torqshift) transmission, change the transmission fluid and filter every 150,000 miles. Note: CD4E transmission used in the Escape contains no serviceable filter.

Special Conditions:

If your vehicle is used for towing, or low speed driving for extended distances, change the fluid only every 30,000 miles, except for the Ford 6R60 transmission. Continue to replace the transmission filter every 150,000 miles except for the CVT transmission, which should have its filter replaced every 60,000 miles.

Service methods:

Ford’s standpoint on flushing and fluid discoloration:

quote:

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In many cases, fluid discoloration is a normal operating characteristic of the chemical compound and may not necessarily demonstrate that a fluid needs to be changed. Oils and Fluids identified in the Owner’s Maintenance Guide should be changed at the specified interval or in conjunction with a repair.

Flushing is a viable way to change fluid for many vehicle sub-systems during scheduled maintenance and should only be done using the same fluid required to finish the maintenance procedure, or a Ford approved flushing chemical.

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Is it just me, or is it that Ford is writing their maintenance guide with a recipe for disaster. Almost like the VW/Audi owner's manuals, which ultimately led to oil sludge problems. I can already see where the average user can misinterpret or misunderstand the maintenance guide, such as with the usage of transmission model numbers as part of the text, instead of mentioning actual vehicle models equipped with a particular transmission. Their many “exceptions” and “in addition to” requirements seem somewhat overwhelming to a Joe Blow.

[ June 05, 2006, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: The Critic ]

 

[Norm Olt]

I like the way you describe where you live!

I don't know: is it REALLY that confusing?

Some transmissions don't have a filter to change so don't change it.

Some transmissions require additional service IF they are used in a towing mode: fluid needs to be changed more often.

Makes sense, IMHO.

Not especially well written, I admit. If you know which car/truck/SUV you have, which transmission it has (CVT vs. auto vs. manual) you can figure it out. I can't imagine waiting 150K to swap out tranny fluid, but SOME PEOPLE never change their brake fluid, either! Then they complain because a brake job costs $1,500 to replace the anti-lock hardware!

Remember, they probably print this "info" in just about every owner's manual they publish word for word...

Cheers!

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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Some transmissions don't have a filter to change so don't change it.

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The CD4E and AW 6-spd units are the ones that do not have a serviceable filter.

The funky part is that you must change the fluid every 30K if you have a 4F50N/4F27E, but change the filter every 150K. This is for all conditions. However, if you do not hae a 4F50N/4F27E, you change the fluid and filter together at 150K. But if you operate under special conditions, you service the fluid only (regardless of transmission type) every 30K, and filter every 150K.

quote:

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Not especially well written, I admit. If you know which car/truck/SUV you have, which transmission it has (CVT vs. auto vs. manual) you can figure it out.

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True, but most owners/quick lubes do not know the model #s of the transmission.

In addition, if Joe Blow was making a quick glance through his maint. guide while in line at the shop, he could easily miss the special operating conditions and the other exclusions and in-addition to items.

They should do what GM does: Service every 50K (fluid/filter) while towing, and every 100K (fluid/filter) if not. Plain and simple.

quote:

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I can't imagine waiting 150K to swap out tranny fluid, but SOME PEOPLE never change their brake fluid, either!

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Agreed, though I know of many people with > 200K on their original fluid w/ABS...and no issues either. So its a crapshoot IMO.

quote:

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Remember, they probably print this "info" in just about every owner's manual they publish word for word...

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True, but I think they certainly need a better "quick reference" maint. guide. Remember that Ford ships with a generic maint. guide for any Ford/Lincoln/Mercury car, SUV, or truck. You have to figure everything out...

 

[surfstar]

A table could make that info much easier to swallow. One for severe service and one for normal, with check boxes for filters and mileage needed for service.

"Welcome to California, now go home."

 

[Jimbo]

Ford is now a global company, with parts sourced from many European and Japanese affiliated companies. The days of having only a C4, C6 and maybe FMX, all made in the same plant are long gone. Get used to it.

DCX mixes and matches driveline components in many Chrysler and Dodge products now. I dont know if they are as specific as Ford on service reqirements, or ignore the engineers and make a "dumbed down" schedule for North America.

 

[Norm Olt]

>200K on the original brake fluid with "no issues"?

I find that amazing: I sure have issues with that practice!

Cheers!

 

[mechtech]

Simply assume the severe duty service schedule.

 

[kendogg441]

What about the new 'lifetime fill' tranny's in the Explorer's, I beleive it's the 5R55E? I work at a Ford dealership, there is NO way to flush those vehicles. We've tried loosening up the only available line going to the cooler, but it never goes back together without leaking. And 9 times out of 10 you get torque converter shuddering problems after a flush in those trany's, no matter the mileage.

Lately, on the new explorer's, we've been seeing them in the shop at about 50k-75k miles, with mainly one of two, if not both of thes eproblems: A failed solenoid in the solenoid pack, or slipping clutches, causeing a code for gear incorrect ratio. 9 times out of 10 replacing the solenoid pack will only cure the problem for a short time, if at all, before the rest of the tranny burns up. Very, VERY bad way to do business, IMO.

What is the deal with these lifetime fluids, anyways? I have my own thereoy's, maybe somebody can set me straight? I think it's a couple reasons. !, to shut up the tree huggers who say we're using too much oil, blah blah blah. 2, to make consumer reports, etc., who evaluate cars based on cost of maintenence, to make them show the car as more 'favorable' because it has a lower cost of ownership. Am I partially right?

 

[Ray H]

No. I'd wager you're totally right.

 

[The Critic]

The 5R55W/5R55S are the units in the > 2002 Explorers with the unusual filling setup. The 5R55E is an older unit that still had the transmission dipstick I believe.

Given your experiences, I guess the best way to service those units would be to drop the pan, swap filters, and fill with new fluid only.

The 5R55W/5R55S units are not known for durability, they’ve been known to fail early from poor design and/or poor quality parts.

The issue I have with the constant preaching with regards to more frequent fluid changes equaling longer transmission life is that, most of the low-mileage failures we’ve been seeing recently are not linked to infrequent fluid changes, but to poorly designed units and/or poor quality parts.

I’ve yet to see any evidence that changing transmission fluid more frequently than recommended, will extend transmission life, at least with the newer Dexron-III(H), Mercon-V, ATF+4, etc fluids.

 

[Gary Allan]

You've gotta figure, Norm ..that 200k will take most people 15+ years to put on a car. In that time the hydraulic system has been serviced ...

I'm not a routine flusher ..nor has anyone that I know ever been one. The only time that I've ever seen a side effect is with something like a 4 piston Corvette that sat for 9-10 months out of the year and this was over 15 years of like storage.

I don't have anything with ABS ..and pray I never do.

 

[Ray H]

For maximum transmission life, change the ATF fluid at least every 30,000 miles. Include the filter if there is one. Two simple, easy-to-understand sentences. I don't know what Ford's engineers were smoking when they wrote that convoluted automatic transmission maintenance schedule, but their schedule stinks even worse.

 

[Norm Olt]

Gary, I don't doubt that after 200K miles (or 15 years) that almost any car's brake system will have been serviced. You are 100% correct.

What I was referring to was the reasonable concept (at least it is "reasonable" IMHO!) that replacing the brake fluid in most instances every 2 or so years removes potentially destructive & corrosive fluid from the system. I have a handful of cars and many of them only need brakes every 5-6 years, or so. For me, a couple of quarts of DOT4 every couple years is money well spent, and the time spent also allows me to check out the brake system, color/cleanliness of the fluid, etc.

Someone with one car and who puts 10-15-20K per year on it is probably going to NEED a brake job (or, possibly, even a new vehicle!)every two to three years, or so... At a true quality shop they are going to do more than just bleed the lines to the front pads, one would hope! Maybe even machine the rotors?

My original comments had more to do with the individual who ignores the brake system until there is noise, screaching, shudderring, leaking, etc. (or, at the worst, failure) and is then just shocked!!! to find out it is going to co$t a bundle to replace the master, calipers, lines, ALB hardware, etc.

Same exact thing happens with transmissions. There are Iffy Lubes and a plethora of brake shops and $tealer$hip$ who exist to fleece these people.

Cheers!

 

[hominid7]

My dumbed down interpretation.....

Ford Tranny Service Intervals

Gas:
Change your fluid every 30,000 miles, filter (if so equipped) every 60,000 miles.

Diesel:
Change fluid and filter (if so equipped) every 30,000 miles.

 

[hominid7]

quote:

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Originally posted by Norm Olt:
What I was referring to was the reasonable concept (at least it is "reasonable" IMHO!) that replacing the brake fluid in most instances every 2 or so years removes potentially destructive & corrosive fluid from the system.

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I agree. On my old car, i changed the brake fluid the old fashioned way (Turkey baster, then had a friend help me bleed them via the foot on the brake method) every 2 or 3 years and never had any problems.

My current car is getting it done this weekend. It's got 46,000 miles but still on the orig brakes. My front pads are ceramic and still look brand new. The rear are organic and are about 50% worn. I guess i'm not too hard on them. I like to 'go' more than i like to 'stop'.

I also replace my P/S fluid at the same time (different turkey baster) and it is self bleeding so thats a super-easy job.

For the price of 2 turkey basters, a bottle of brake fluid and a quart of trans fluid for the P/S, it's cheap and easy insurance.

 

[tenderloin]

On my four previous work vehicles with the Ford 5 speed auto. I had the pan dropped, filter replaced and refilled. The '97 Aerostar had over 325,000 miles and was still going strong. The others had over 200,000 miles..not one problem!

As far as problems with the '04 Explorers or so, Ford had a bad batch of tranny fluid which has been creating heck and havoc. They came out with a simple additive fix(?), BUT since the tranny has no dipstick it means more time as the additive has to be added from underneath the vehicle. Also a bad batch of solenoids needing to be replaced as well as reprogramming. Ford has some TSB out on this.

So far my two '05 Explorers have not had any problems )40.000 miles the most miles).

 

[eljefino]

I'm with kendogg. This way they can say the base explorer never needs transmission service and compare it to other cars in edmunds' total cost of ownership, etc.

This has been going on since at least 1980, when my Dad's Fairmont sales brochure bragged about a 30% lower cost of ownership compared to the 1970 Fairlane. This was achieved by only changing the engine oil every 10k (in 1980!), etc. Must not have been a good year for Ford to be braggin.

There's an Acura SUV that can tow an extra 1000 lbs if it happens to be towing a boat trailer. I wonder if they assume boat duty to be occasional... and don't want some contractor hauling a max-weighted everyday trailer, everyday. I wonder if their salesmen say, "Ya gotta boat? This'll haul 4500 lbs" or somesuch.

 

[H2GURU]

Weigh the costs of ANNUAL tranny fluid drain versus a total tranny teardown and you will see the clear winner. You won't even have to read the owner's manual.
"When all else fails...read the instruction manual!"

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by eljefino:

There's an Acura SUV that can tow an extra 1000 lbs if it happens to be towing a boat trailer. I wonder if they assume boat duty to be occasional... and don't want some contractor hauling a max-weighted everyday trailer, everyday. I wonder if their salesmen say, "Ya gotta boat? This'll haul 4500 lbs" or somesuch.

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Joe Boat owner sees that 1000 lb limit, then puts his 1000 lb boat on a 500 lb trailer and carrys 500 lbs of gear in his boat. And Joe's the only the boat owner in the world that read the weight limitation and gave it a bit of credence.

 

[Raven18940]

quote:

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Originally posted by hominid7:
My dumbed down interpretation.....

Ford Tranny Service Intervals

Gas:
Change your fluid every 30,000 miles, filter (if so equipped) every 60,000 miles.

Diesel:
Change fluid and filter (if so equipped) every 30,000 miles.

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That's what I read as well.