Why do people use cheap copper plugs still?

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Trav
There are zero advantages to a traditional copper plug other than its initial lower price tag.

Well, I disagree... copper/nickel filled steel is a better heat and electrical conductor than platinum bonded to steel... but the difference is really so tiny as to not be important in most cases. The problems people have with the fine-wire Bosch platinum electrode were due to the design, not the metal. When you slice it down to the bone, copper is a better conductor

 

[Trav]

Quote:
than platinum bonded to steel.

It is not bonded to steel it is bonded to copper just like the regular plugs.
Check out the link in my post.

 

[Volvohead]

Cheap copper?

That's an oxymoron if all the news reports of wire and church AC thefts are to be believed.

Copper is a superior thermal and electrical conductor than hi-tech alternatives. But if conductivity was the only criteria, then we'd be running aluminum core plugs.

Last I checked, most plugs (including most of the noble metal tipped ones) still have copper-alloy CORES. To my knowledge, nobody uses an all-copper center electrode tip.

FWIW, in gasoline marine engine apps (where an expensive krypton or plutonium tipped plug is no expense at all in the marine marketplace), the widely preferred choice for heavy-load, WOT, all-day long operation, burning hundreds of gallons of fuel, is usually the "cheap copper plug". The fancy alternatives just do not hold up as well.

 

[GMBoy]

Nothing wrong with copper.

The newest platinum and Iridium plugs only give you longer life. Anybody telling you that you will get more power out of a spark plug is full of it.

Long life plug are a great thing especially for hard to do plug changes.

 

[Trav]

Marine engines while sometimes share a similar block to their automotive cousins are a different breed.
The plugs operate believe it or not under decent conditions, they have very stable combustion chamber temp, stable voltage and don't have much to do in the way of deposit control.

It is a kind environment for them, auto engine plugs have a horrible life. Instant temperature rise going from idle to mid-high rpm hundreds of times a day, voltage fluctuations and spikes, deposits begin to form at prolonged idle and need to be cleaned off, etc.
The service interval on marine engines is considerably different also.

Constant WOT has other considerations, oil takes a beating and even the fuel injectors use a different fuel basket inside, but on the other hand constant WOT is good for camshafts and similar parts.

Originally Posted By: Gmboy
The newest platinum and Iridium plugs only give you longer life

Easier starting and longer component life are also some of the benefits. as far a HP goes i believe its probably negligable.

 

[SteveSRT8]

No offense intended but saying that the 'fancy ones just don't hold up' is complete baloney.

I have a very demanding marine application involving a stroked and supercharged 572 Chevy in a boat. About 850 crankshaft HP.

I run NGK platinum/iridiums. They work better than great, and they last. A copper plug is good for 5 hours in this motor. The NGK's last for an entire season easily.

 

[andyd]

heh heh. Wabbout Bosch silvers? They will go 100k. I ran a set for 60k miles. I changed them for platinums. I didnt like them. So, I put the silvers back in for another 40 k miles. W9 RLS. I use coppers. I can swap out the plugs in a 528e in a 1/2 hour. I am currently using NGK coppers

 

[Trav]

You didn't like them? No details or explanation. I think you are just

 

[kb01]

Chrysler still seems to use coppers in many of its vehicles. I've swapped them out for platinums and never had any issues with idle, mileage, or ride.

 

[johnsmellsalot]

My PT Cruiser uses Champion Copper plugs. They have to be changed out every 30,000 miles. They only cost $10 for all 4.

 

[DJ]

I have seen a lot of guys report knocking the platinum pucks off plugs when they start turning up the power.

I think you are being extremely narrow minded about this, then again that is pretty much the hallmark of ASE certification, know everything the book says but the real world escapes most who wear that patch.

 

[Trav]

If you are responding to me then at least reply to me not the OP.
Quote:
extremely narrow minded about this, then again that is pretty much the hallmark of ASE certification, know everything the book says but the real world escapes most who wear that patch

I see you are knocking ASE certification. Let me tell you the L1 is no joke or just some mickey mouse cert.
My German certs took almost two decades to get and are only awarded upon peer review theoretical and practical by a board made up of working Meister.

I have 38 yrs REAL WORLD experience. I never heard of anyone loosing pucks off platinum plugs.
I suppose its possible but so is damage to any plug under certain circumstances e.g detonation which is common when the "power is turned up".

 

[SteveSRT8]

Detonation is the key word.

Backyard tuners clamping the waste gate shut are what comes to mind.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have 38 yrs REAL WORLD experience. I never heard of anyone loosing pucks off platinum plugs.


Trav, the old Audi used coppers, and that's even what the Bosch site recommended two years back. Personally, I would have had no problems trying platinums or the like on it. However, if every car were like that Audi, where plug replacement was a ten minute job with no hand burns or strange contortions required and OEM plugs were $1.50 a piece, I suppose we would never have this debate!

Plugs, ten minutes. Cap and rotor, under five minutes. Air filter - close to two hours. I digress.

I don't care how old or new the car is. If it were a real nuisance to change plugs, I'd be trying platinums at least once.

 

[GMBoy]

The only example of pucks coming off the plugs that I am very aware of are with some AC DELCO's. I've read about many cases and experienced 1 case of my own when changing plugs. The gap was extremely wide on 2 plugs and then I noticed the puck was gone - creating the large gap.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Detonation is the key word.

Backyard tuners clamping the waste gate shut are what comes to mind.

+1 They also many times fail to realize that the mods they have done can really have an effect on combustion chamber temps and plug heat range requirements.

I have never seen or heard of loosing the platinum disc when the correct plug type and heat range was used.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
the old Audi used coppers, and that's even what the Bosch site recommended two years back

Yes i know this is common with German makers and Bosch, they never seem to update the specs on anything.

I see it all the time with injectors also, they still spec these old metal body units even when newer much improved and superior composite/metal units are available from Bosch with identical specs.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I never heard of anyone loosing pucks off platinum plugs.

Allow me to report that the OEM platinum plugs on my stock 98 ZX2 lost their pucks on more than one plug in less than 60K. The replacement plugs also shared the same fate.

 

[DJ]

IN my experience ASE certification means skilled parts swapper, has NOTHING to do with understanding how everything works.

The higher thermal conductivity of copper certainly can come in handy once you start turning up the power, adding nitrous etc..

Just because a technology is old doesn't make it without any benefit.

Arguments like "faster starting" are generic and used to push an opinion. My car has nearly double stock HP still NA, stock coil/module/distributor, copper plugs and a couple points more than stock compression and fires instantly even after sitting the winter.

For my daily driver I wont be putting copper in it, for modified vehicles though the better cooling of copper can come in handy. Sometimes we have to deal with things like cylinder to cylinder airflow imbalance and such that would make a fine wire that doesn't cool well detonate in a lean cylinder that is hot and on rich cylinders plugs will get dirty no matter what type they are.

I am not saying copper is better, just that it still has a place on the shelves of the parts stores.

 

[Vikas]

Paul,

Do you know which platinum would be compatible with NGK BP5ES (or BPR5ES)? I have not been able to find cross reference to it

Thanks,