I've replaced front calipers on multiple cars and my experience on all of them is that it tends to leave the brakes feeling "soft".
Here's what I'm usually working with:
1. All calipers were replaced on Honda vehicles.
2. Cars were mine and meticulously maintained with regular brake fluid changes.
3. Bleeding follows factory service manual (Honda specifies their order which is front left, front right, rear right, rear left).
4. During the caliper replacement I always make sure everything is lubed and slides (both pads and guide pins) freely.
5. I bleed using the one man method, I attach tubing to the bleeder with the other end submerged in a clear container of brake fluid and pump about thirty times until the line is totally brake fluid, checking the reservoir periodically. Once I see all fluid I close the bleeder and torque it to specs.
After I replace the calipers and bleed the brake system what I notice is that it becomes soft. Here's what I mean by "soft":
1. The stopping power is the same as before. Nice and firm while driving.
2. When off without vacuum brake assist the pedal is rock solid and holds rock solid with sustained pressure.
3. It stops at the same level of pedal travel that it did before.
4. When I'm stopped though, I can push the pedal more and this part of it is what I call soft (and I hear a whooshing sound near the pedal area).
The first few times I replaced the calipers on different cars, I thought I was imagining it, so I made a mental note to compare the softness of that last part before and after I did a caliper replacement and sure enough the next time I did it there was that softness. I can't tell if I'm going crazy or what.
It's not:
1. Air in the lines or caliper. I'm positive of that based on the amount of brake fluid I've spent. I've tried one man bleeding it, I've tried vacuum hand pump bleeding it, I've tried helper bleeding it, I've tried tapping calipers with rubber mallets.
2. There are no brake fluid leaks.
3. It's not an internal leak at the master cylinder either since the calipers were changed on relatively young cars (maybe around 5 years old with well maintained brake fluid). The Honda test (in their service manual) for an internal MC leak is to hold the brake pedal and watch for it to sink (which it did not on all of the cars). I've driven ratty old beaters that did have MC issues and I know what that's like (sinking pedal at red lights on hot summer days). This is not that.
The first few times it happened it made me think I was doing something wrong so I ended up bleeding all four wheels repeatedly, at least three or four times on one car alone. I must have run three to four of those short brake fluid bottles before I gave up and assumed I didn't know what normal was.
So does anyone have any idea of how to explain this? Have you also noticed this? Does it happen to your brakes when you're driving? What controls the pedal travel after the car has stopped? Could it be due to the new calipers having newly greased slide pins, new hardware and new grease on the hardware and backs of pads? I'm wondering if the sliding action of the guide pins or the pads could be big enough to cause this feeling. If the older pads were stuck in their positions or moved less, would it result in lower travel?
Here's what I'm usually working with:
1. All calipers were replaced on Honda vehicles.
2. Cars were mine and meticulously maintained with regular brake fluid changes.
3. Bleeding follows factory service manual (Honda specifies their order which is front left, front right, rear right, rear left).
4. During the caliper replacement I always make sure everything is lubed and slides (both pads and guide pins) freely.
5. I bleed using the one man method, I attach tubing to the bleeder with the other end submerged in a clear container of brake fluid and pump about thirty times until the line is totally brake fluid, checking the reservoir periodically. Once I see all fluid I close the bleeder and torque it to specs.
After I replace the calipers and bleed the brake system what I notice is that it becomes soft. Here's what I mean by "soft":
1. The stopping power is the same as before. Nice and firm while driving.
2. When off without vacuum brake assist the pedal is rock solid and holds rock solid with sustained pressure.
3. It stops at the same level of pedal travel that it did before.
4. When I'm stopped though, I can push the pedal more and this part of it is what I call soft (and I hear a whooshing sound near the pedal area).
The first few times I replaced the calipers on different cars, I thought I was imagining it, so I made a mental note to compare the softness of that last part before and after I did a caliper replacement and sure enough the next time I did it there was that softness. I can't tell if I'm going crazy or what.
It's not:
1. Air in the lines or caliper. I'm positive of that based on the amount of brake fluid I've spent. I've tried one man bleeding it, I've tried vacuum hand pump bleeding it, I've tried helper bleeding it, I've tried tapping calipers with rubber mallets.
2. There are no brake fluid leaks.
3. It's not an internal leak at the master cylinder either since the calipers were changed on relatively young cars (maybe around 5 years old with well maintained brake fluid). The Honda test (in their service manual) for an internal MC leak is to hold the brake pedal and watch for it to sink (which it did not on all of the cars). I've driven ratty old beaters that did have MC issues and I know what that's like (sinking pedal at red lights on hot summer days). This is not that.
The first few times it happened it made me think I was doing something wrong so I ended up bleeding all four wheels repeatedly, at least three or four times on one car alone. I must have run three to four of those short brake fluid bottles before I gave up and assumed I didn't know what normal was.
So does anyone have any idea of how to explain this? Have you also noticed this? Does it happen to your brakes when you're driving? What controls the pedal travel after the car has stopped? Could it be due to the new calipers having newly greased slide pins, new hardware and new grease on the hardware and backs of pads? I'm wondering if the sliding action of the guide pins or the pads could be big enough to cause this feeling. If the older pads were stuck in their positions or moved less, would it result in lower travel?
