Why can't everyone use 0w-xx?

[tpattgeek]

Excuse my ignorance, but if a 0w oil is thicker at ambient temp. than any other oil's thickness at operating temp., why do people think 5w and 0w are "too thin" when they're actually still much thicker than the oil when it's at operating temp in the same vehicle? Hopefully someone can explain this to me.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

at operating temps, the xx weight oils will all be xx weight. the difference is in pumpability at low temps. a 0w is measured at a lower temp than is a 5w or a 10w. they are all still xx oils

 

[tpattgeek]

So pumpability is a problem with a thinner oil? Shouldn't it make it easier to pump and easier on the vehicle altogether at low/ambient temp? I'm not really worried about operating temp which is why I used xx to represent anything. I was just curious to know why, if at all, a 0w is considered too thin when it's in fact thicker than a x-20, 30, 40, etc.

 

[gib]

Everyone can use 0w-XX oils. I do believe some people don't understand the meaning of the winter rating, which is the source of at least some confusion.

 

[tuckman]

In most applications 0w oils would perform very well.

The problem is in the myths about 0w oils or "Its thicker so it has to be better" mentality. I have been told 0w oils are voodoo to only be used in Siberia or the arctic and should be changed out after the ambient temps are above freezing so you don't damage your engine. Even where I live I encounter it almost every time I tell somebody I am running 0w30 year round in my diesel Excursion. I get lots of people telling me I am going to crater that powerstroke if I don't run 15w40!

I will have my used oil analysis proof for them soon enough!

 

[rogan]

A lot of people probably just don´t understand winter rating.
Others might be afraid of VII which was necessary in large
doses with grp1 base oils and low winter rating in all-year oils.
These days, with modern base oils that has high natural VI, there
is no really good reason to run anything else than the BEST low
temperature rating (0W).

 

[Texan4Life]

the temperature chart in my owners manual shows a difference between 5w30 and 10w30. 5w being acceptable up to 90F. over 90F 10w is recommended.

It makes me think why?

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

Maybe higher volatility is a good reason not to use 0W-xx over 5W-xx or 10W-xx oils. Cruddy intakes and valves and plugged PCVs aren't fun either, and what are the tangible benefits of 0W- over anything else anyway? I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that there are reasons for everything. Whether people understand the first thing about the reasons or the benefits is another matter entirely.

 

[pidster]

A lot of people I talk to seem to be under the impression that a 5w30 is thinner than a 10w30, period, and don't understand that it's a cold temp thing.

Seems to be the case 90% of the time. I'll admit, I thought basically the same until I was educated a little about oil.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
Excuse my ignorance, but if a 0w oil is thicker at ambient temp. than any other oil's thickness at operating temp., why do people think 5w and 0w are "too thin" when they're actually still much thicker than the oil when it's at operating temp in the same vehicle?

They don't know what the viscosity ratings actually mean. It's as simple as that.

 

[JHZR2]

everyone could use 0w- oils without issue for the most part. Problems are that there is a lack of understanding,the base fluids will need to be more expensive to obtain the right properties, and in reality for much of normal service, there is very little real benefit, and even less benefit that the actual consumer will see.

Plus, people love to do linear interpolations of viscosity at more normal temperatures than the -35C that 0w- oils are tested at. Do we really know that the 0w- oil will flow better than the 5w- or 10w- oil at 39F? 22F? 0F? i.e. temperatures that we will normally see? Nope.

 

[webfors]

Answer: They can. Chances are they are more expensive than a 5wXX or 10wXX, so it's a waste of money when average temps don't require it.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Answer: They can. Chances are they are more expensive than a 5wXX or 10wXX, so it's a waste of money when average temps don't require it.


The same is true for High Temps! You dont see people hunting down the 0w50 Eneos for when they live in Death Vallex, AZ! That oil is likely a 40wt. at Normal Temp anyway, not a 50..

I think a great example is 5W-40. Its the Euro formula on a lot of oils.. people SAY it is thinner than a 0W at cold temp, but when it warms up its closer to 40 than a 0W would be. (Thick 5, thin 40, and before yall chop my head off, talking about 5 NOT as a viscosity, but as a factor in the viscosity range of how thick it is vs a lower W nnumber of same KV.)

Always amazed me how you can run 0W-20 in a 7.4L Powerstroke, or whatever that V10 Excursion (Gasoline) is.

Are there those that believe Ambient Temp does not make a difference? For example, 110 degree steamy sticky sauna-like Miami in July, maybe hotter. Idling in traffic then drive for 40 minutes to beach. Thick Oil there? The cars that FF 5W-20 do fine... ?

 

[D189379]

I would run 0w oils all year if they were easier to find. But even here in Canada they are pretty hard to come by in the normal places people buy oil.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Are there those that believe Ambient Temp does not make a difference? For example, 110 degree steamy sticky sauna-like Miami in July, maybe hotter. Idling in traffic then drive for 40 minutes to beach. Thick Oil there? The cars that FF 5W-20 do fine... ?


+1

I can imagine several vehicles, including mine, that thrive on 5-20 (or 0-20). I'm in the humid Louisiana heat, hwy traffic, city traffic... never had an issue...

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: D189379
I would run 0w oils all year if they were easier to find. But even here in Canada they are pretty hard to come by in the normal places people buy oil.


They seem to be getting more popular down here in Southern USA. I'm thankful for that now that I've been educated on it. Will it benefit me greatly in my climate? Not likely. But it sure does give me great peace of mind knowing I'm using something great.

 

[lipadj46]

Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
Excuse my ignorance, but if a 0w oil is thicker at ambient temp. than any other oil's thickness at operating temp., why do people think 5w and 0w are "too thin" when they're actually still much thicker than the oil when it's at operating temp in the same vehicle? Hopefully someone can explain this to me.


I think there is a misconception that 0w-xx are thin at start up and then somehow "thicken up" when they get hot. I hear it all the time on vehicle specific forums. People have some wacky ideas on how things work and it takes a lot to get them to change their views.

 

[typ901]

Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
the temperature chart in my owners manual shows a difference between 5w30 and 10w30. 5w being acceptable up to 90F. over 90F 10w is recommended.

It makes me think why?


-This must depend on Application. I have an oil chart for my '01 M-B E320 and it indicates that oil grades ranging from 0w30 to 20w-50 will protect above 86 F. It only changes in regards to cold weather, not warm. 10w30/40 weight oils are approved down to -4F, anything colder a 5 or 0 weight is recommended.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
Excuse my ignorance, but if a 0w oil is thicker at ambient temp. than any other oil's thickness at operating temp., why do people think 5w and 0w are "too thin"

1. Because they don't understand the meaning.
2. Because 0w-XX oils are typically synthetics and therefore cost more.

 

[ItsuMitsubishi]

Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
Maybe higher volatility is a good reason not to use 0W-xx over 5W-xx or 10W-xx oils. Cruddy intakes and valves and plugged PCVs aren't fun either, and what are the tangible benefits of 0W- over anything else anyway? I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that there are reasons for everything. Whether people understand the first thing about the reasons or the benefits is another matter entirely.


You're the only guy thus far not riding the bandwagon

and the only one so far to reason anything other than the abstract KV. Which begs the question, are there any reasons why heavy-duty engine manufacturers would still recommend 15w40, SAE30, SAE40? Why shouldn't I run 0w40 in my high torque marine engine? Would any differences present themselves in say, a high-output, high-heat scenario vs 'garbage' like a HD, average VI mineral oil?