Having worked in a tire shop I have seen this problem before. It is rare but it does occur. Removing the sticker fixes the leak.
WHY barcode stickers on the tire bead seat???
- Thread starter Traction
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Just a couple of thoughts:
1) The best place to complain is on the tire manufacturer's 800 number. I can't vouch for others, but the guys I worked for listened to what was being said and reacted as best they could.
2) There are some other ways to do this marking, but the technology wasn't very far along when I was working (not reliable). One was UV paints - paints that are invisible in normal light but glow under UV lamps. It would take some effort to bring these to production level, but if there were some complaints, that would help sell the program to management.
3) Some of the bar code labels are hard to rip off because they are well bonded to the rubber.
1) The best place to complain is on the tire manufacturer's 800 number. I can't vouch for others, but the guys I worked for listened to what was being said and reacted as best they could.
2) There are some other ways to do this marking, but the technology wasn't very far along when I was working (not reliable). One was UV paints - paints that are invisible in normal light but glow under UV lamps. It would take some effort to bring these to production level, but if there were some complaints, that would help sell the program to management.
3) Some of the bar code labels are hard to rip off because they are well bonded to the rubber.
Originally Posted by Traction
Here is another recent barcode beak leak on a 2 year old Cooper CS5. Leaks right by the edges. Accidently deleted the clear pic off my phone. Hard plastic makes for a terrible seal.
The tire doesn't seal against the wheel at that location. It may fit tightly there, and make actually 'seal' against the wheel temporarily, but the air chamber seals well below that location. You are experiencing a leak at the sealing surface and the air is just making it's way to that spot. (refer to my previous post) If you remove the bar code sticker, unfortunately you are going to continue to have a leak as the problem is somewhere else. You might have the shop wire brush the wheel to remove any corrosion or old sealant and use some fresh bead sealant. Also check for mounting damage to the toe and around the bottom corner of the bead area.
Here is another recent barcode beak leak on a 2 year old Cooper CS5. Leaks right by the edges. Accidently deleted the clear pic off my phone. Hard plastic makes for a terrible seal.
The tire doesn't seal against the wheel at that location. It may fit tightly there, and make actually 'seal' against the wheel temporarily, but the air chamber seals well below that location. You are experiencing a leak at the sealing surface and the air is just making it's way to that spot. (refer to my previous post) If you remove the bar code sticker, unfortunately you are going to continue to have a leak as the problem is somewhere else. You might have the shop wire brush the wheel to remove any corrosion or old sealant and use some fresh bead sealant. Also check for mounting damage to the toe and around the bottom corner of the bead area.
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As a general rule, tires are supposed to seal at the bead toe. Bead toes are smaller in diameter than the wheel AND they sometimes have more taper. That's why the side of the bead or just above it (as per the photo) is generally considered the best area for the bar code.
But since it is not uncommon for wheels to get corroded, it is also not uncommon for the seal to take place somewhere else.
Again, I encourage anyone who encounters a leak at the bar code to complain to the tire manufacturer. That's the only way this is going to get fixed. There are ways to deal with this, but they will require some work and the complaints will encourage the tire manufacturers do the work needed.
But since it is not uncommon for wheels to get corroded, it is also not uncommon for the seal to take place somewhere else.
Again, I encourage anyone who encounters a leak at the bar code to complain to the tire manufacturer. That's the only way this is going to get fixed. There are ways to deal with this, but they will require some work and the complaints will encourage the tire manufacturers do the work needed.
After installing tires, and fixing leaks for 17 years now, I know tires don't seal just in the toe area of the bead. I've seen a steel wheel with no corrosion leak at the bar code. I have also seen many leaks that start right around clip on wheel weights, which is where the corrosion usually starts. I see a lot of corroded wheels that usually start on the never washed rear bead seat first from road salt too many times to count, even on some newer cars with the OE tires on it. They always start leaking from the flat side of the bead, and not the toe area. I never feel the need to use bead sealer on a clean wheel with a new tire, yet so many other shops just slobber it all of the wheel, and tire bead, and have even seen those leak because they overuse it, and it's not even needed. I have never seen bead sealer on new car tires from the factory either. I also see tire bead leaks that are caused by people running under inflated which leak down much quicker, since it is the pressure that makes it seal tight. And then there are the people that keep adding more wet air to a leaky bead, or puncture instead of getting it repaired, and those are the tire/wheels that have tons of corrosion on them. It is difficult to keep a tire sealed with over 8 feet of bead surface to seal on just one tire. The list is endless.
Michelin has been a fan of that barcode label - although I have not seen one in the last 10+ years.
The new trend in tire tracking is RFID - Michelin, Conti and Pirelli have been working on it from the truck/bus and racing side. It would only make more sense from the OEM(especially for warranty and recall purposes) and the retailer perspective(especially the latter, as Wal-Mart is a big supporter of EPC for inventory tracking) and the cost to add an RFID tag to a tire is small.
https://rainrfid.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/9-Michelin-RFID-for-tiresRAINalliance_V5.pdf
https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-w...mart-tyre-that-interacts-with-the-driver
https://www.continental-automotive....stems/Electronic-Tire-Information-System
The new trend in tire tracking is RFID - Michelin, Conti and Pirelli have been working on it from the truck/bus and racing side. It would only make more sense from the OEM(especially for warranty and recall purposes) and the retailer perspective(especially the latter, as Wal-Mart is a big supporter of EPC for inventory tracking) and the cost to add an RFID tag to a tire is small.
https://rainrfid.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/9-Michelin-RFID-for-tiresRAINalliance_V5.pdf
https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-w...mart-tyre-that-interacts-with-the-driver
https://www.continental-automotive....stems/Electronic-Tire-Information-System
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Originally Posted by grampi
I guess my question would be, why does this sticker need to be placed anywhere near the bead? Why not put it on the tread where it can't possibly interfere with anything?
2 reasons:
1) The bar code CAN'T go on the tread because that would cause molding issues
2) If it was placed Just off the tread surface it would be visible and people don't like that.
Originally Posted by Traction
After installing tires, and fixing leaks for 17 years now, I know tires don't seal just in the toe area of the bead. I've seen a steel wheel with no corrosion leak at the bar code...…
I've truncated the post so it doesn't take up as much space - and kept just the beginning so everyone knows what I am responding to.
So let me put it like this. The design of the bead is such that there is an interference fit from the heel to the toe. That interference is supposed to be where the seal occurs.
If the seal doesn't happen there, then the escaping air has to go somewhere and the bar code and the weight clips are the weakest area - which is why leaks APPEAR to not be sealing there - but the lack of sealing is taking place at the toe.
This is one of those reasons why it's important to tell the tire manufacturer there is a leak between the wheel and the tire. There are a number of ways that beads can be designed and I don't think there has been a lot of research into why that seal doesn't occur 100% of the time.
I guess my question would be, why does this sticker need to be placed anywhere near the bead? Why not put it on the tread where it can't possibly interfere with anything?
2 reasons:
1) The bar code CAN'T go on the tread because that would cause molding issues
2) If it was placed Just off the tread surface it would be visible and people don't like that.
Originally Posted by Traction
After installing tires, and fixing leaks for 17 years now, I know tires don't seal just in the toe area of the bead. I've seen a steel wheel with no corrosion leak at the bar code...…
I've truncated the post so it doesn't take up as much space - and kept just the beginning so everyone knows what I am responding to.
So let me put it like this. The design of the bead is such that there is an interference fit from the heel to the toe. That interference is supposed to be where the seal occurs.
If the seal doesn't happen there, then the escaping air has to go somewhere and the bar code and the weight clips are the weakest area - which is why leaks APPEAR to not be sealing there - but the lack of sealing is taking place at the toe.
This is one of those reasons why it's important to tell the tire manufacturer there is a leak between the wheel and the tire. There are a number of ways that beads can be designed and I don't think there has been a lot of research into why that seal doesn't occur 100% of the time.
Many times it's corrosion that causes the leaks. I've also seen OE wheels that were slightly out of spec with a diameter that was too small (under the industry standard for J contour) at the seating location. Combine an out of spec wheel with a little corrosion and it becomes a slow leak problem. I imagine that this happens more than people realize.
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Originally Posted by grampi
I guess my question would be, why does this sticker need to be placed anywhere near the bead? Why not put it on the tread where it can't possibly interfere with anything?
2 reasons:
1) The bar code CAN'T go on the tread because that would cause molding issues
2) If it was placed Just off the tread surface it would be visible and people don't like that.
Originally Posted by Traction
After installing tires, and fixing leaks for 17 years now, I know tires don't seal just in the toe area of the bead. I've seen a steel wheel with no corrosion leak at the bar code...…
I've truncated the post so it doesn't take up as much space - and kept just the beginning so everyone knows what I am responding to.
So let me put it like this. The design of the bead is such that there is an interference fit from the heel to the toe. That interference is supposed to be where the seal occurs.
If the seal doesn't happen there, then the escaping air has to go somewhere and the bar code and the weight clips are the weakest area - which is why leaks APPEAR to not be sealing there - but the lack of sealing is taking place at the toe.
This is one of those reasons why it's important to tell the tire manufacturer there is a leak between the wheel and the tire. There are a number of ways that beads can be designed and I don't think there has been a lot of research into why that seal doesn't occur 100% of the time.
Okay, now I'm confused. When exactly is the bar code sticker placed on the tire that it would interfere with the tread mold? What difference does it make where it's placed on the tire? If it's where it can be seen, then why not just remove it?
Originally Posted by grampi
I guess my question would be, why does this sticker need to be placed anywhere near the bead? Why not put it on the tread where it can't possibly interfere with anything?
2 reasons:
1) The bar code CAN'T go on the tread because that would cause molding issues
2) If it was placed Just off the tread surface it would be visible and people don't like that.
Originally Posted by Traction
After installing tires, and fixing leaks for 17 years now, I know tires don't seal just in the toe area of the bead. I've seen a steel wheel with no corrosion leak at the bar code...…
I've truncated the post so it doesn't take up as much space - and kept just the beginning so everyone knows what I am responding to.
So let me put it like this. The design of the bead is such that there is an interference fit from the heel to the toe. That interference is supposed to be where the seal occurs.
If the seal doesn't happen there, then the escaping air has to go somewhere and the bar code and the weight clips are the weakest area - which is why leaks APPEAR to not be sealing there - but the lack of sealing is taking place at the toe.
This is one of those reasons why it's important to tell the tire manufacturer there is a leak between the wheel and the tire. There are a number of ways that beads can be designed and I don't think there has been a lot of research into why that seal doesn't occur 100% of the time.
Okay, now I'm confused. When exactly is the bar code sticker placed on the tire that it would interfere with the tread mold? What difference does it make where it's placed on the tire? If it's where it can be seen, then why not just remove it?
Originally Posted by grampi
Okay, now I'm confused. When exactly is the bar code sticker placed on the tire that it would interfere with the tread mold? What difference does it make where it's placed on the tire? If it's where it can be seen, then why not just remove it?
The bar code is placed on the tire at the tire building machine. The tag has to be placed somewhere that will eventually be flat(ish), So the tread, the inside, and most of the sidewall (where the lettering is) are out. That leaves the bead area, parts of the tread area and parts of the sidewall.
The bar code records which machine, the date and time, which builder, and all the components that went into making the tire. From there, the bar code gets scanned at the curing press (Machine number, date and time, etc), then at all the other stations after (Uniformity machine, balance machine, repair station, warehousing location) and finally at the dock just before it is shipped.
But what is also recorded is all the information about the components that made up the tire - and depending on how far back it goes, that might even mean - for example - the specific tree that the rubber was harvested from.
If the tire ever gets returned, the bar code can be scanned and recorded as to why it came back, when it came back, where it came back from, what was found, etc. Then some engineer (raises hand!) has to crunch the numbers to figure out if anything can be learned. Is there a pattern that can be discerned, and possibly fixed? Thank goodness for Pivot Tables!
So it would be best if the bar code could survive the entire trip. Someone mentioned FRID chips and that is certainly an option. If I remember correctly, the problem was getting the chip to survive curing reliably. We're talking a 99.9% survival rate (perhaps higher), in order to be useful.
Okay, now I'm confused. When exactly is the bar code sticker placed on the tire that it would interfere with the tread mold? What difference does it make where it's placed on the tire? If it's where it can be seen, then why not just remove it?
The bar code is placed on the tire at the tire building machine. The tag has to be placed somewhere that will eventually be flat(ish), So the tread, the inside, and most of the sidewall (where the lettering is) are out. That leaves the bead area, parts of the tread area and parts of the sidewall.
The bar code records which machine, the date and time, which builder, and all the components that went into making the tire. From there, the bar code gets scanned at the curing press (Machine number, date and time, etc), then at all the other stations after (Uniformity machine, balance machine, repair station, warehousing location) and finally at the dock just before it is shipped.
But what is also recorded is all the information about the components that made up the tire - and depending on how far back it goes, that might even mean - for example - the specific tree that the rubber was harvested from.
If the tire ever gets returned, the bar code can be scanned and recorded as to why it came back, when it came back, where it came back from, what was found, etc. Then some engineer (raises hand!) has to crunch the numbers to figure out if anything can be learned. Is there a pattern that can be discerned, and possibly fixed? Thank goodness for Pivot Tables!
So it would be best if the bar code could survive the entire trip. Someone mentioned FRID chips and that is certainly an option. If I remember correctly, the problem was getting the chip to survive curing reliably. We're talking a 99.9% survival rate (perhaps higher), in order to be useful.
Originally Posted by Traction
Here is some typical bead corrosion I see all to often. This is off of a 04 low mile garage kept Caddy.
Great photos! That's some pretty bad corrosion! Those wheels are prime candidates for bead sealant. If they were mine, I'd replace them.
I've only seen worse on one occasion and it was with some OE Ford chrome plated aluminum wheels. The chrome was peeling off in razor sharp sheets and it all had to be removed to get down to the corrosion underneath.
Here is some typical bead corrosion I see all to often. This is off of a 04 low mile garage kept Caddy.
Great photos! That's some pretty bad corrosion! Those wheels are prime candidates for bead sealant. If they were mine, I'd replace them.
I've only seen worse on one occasion and it was with some OE Ford chrome plated aluminum wheels. The chrome was peeling off in razor sharp sheets and it all had to be removed to get down to the corrosion underneath.
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