Why aren't transmissions more easily servicable?

[CharBaby]

I think that 5-7 years is where my wife & I want to be from now on instead of putting a one(1) in front of those numbers. As we get older, we want to take advantage of the new(er) technologies and just drive more trouble free vehicle along with trying different types of vehicles from sedans, SUVs etc. And the largest advantage will be having our vehicles most important items covered under mfg warranty.

 

[Wylie6G72]

Editing that particular statement out for an *.

In particular, to the newest transmission, I have to service, the 10R80. Its filter is a pretty complex little thing that I think I'm going to replace early (30-60K) as it is such a complicated transmission with a crazy amount of fluid circuity and solenoids that I think people are going to want to err on the side of caution with it. Ford puts their first 'non-severe change at around 150k. Time will tell, but I think these things are going to be too sensitive to go that far. I may well be wrong, but I don't want to find out the hard way. It's also an actual pleated filter as opposed to the usual 'rock catcher' type.

And no drain plug.

And a stupid procedure for checking the level where you are guaranteed 2nd or 3rd-degree burns.

But I do love my 2 Honda cars. Dain, fill, done. (Although the Accord does have an easily replaceable filter)

I think you're spot-on with the 10R80. Too much going on in that transmission to let it go to 150K. But hey, it's out of warranty by that time, so what do they care?

 

[ctechbob]

I think so many people get rid of vehicles before 100K miles that most manufacturers don't really care. My goal for ownership is 100k miles and it will take me 10 years to drive 100K miles and my wife 12-13 years to drive 100k miles. Both vehicles are paid off after 4 years and so we can drive them 6-9 years with no payments, sell the vehicle and get something new. The chances of anything transmission fluid-related happening are slim.

I think 10-13 years of ownership is on the high end even of my mileage is not. Most people seem to get a new vehicle every 5-7 years.

I think you're fairly on the money with that. It's just magnified here because most everyone here is an edge case where we can't stand NOT to change the fluid, or we're keeping our vehicles a LOT longer than average.

 

[edyvw]

Only Ford/GM/Chrysler are stupid enough to not include a drain plug on their transmissions. Basically everyone else does. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, etc, all have drain plugs in their transmissions. The Saturn S-series has a drain plug because they were actually trying to compete, and overseas GM cars such as the Catera and Spark have one, and the transmissions they make for others (the 4L30 that BMW used, for example). Transmissions shared between Ford and Mazda have a drain plug on a Mazda but not on a Ford

Transmission filters don't do much and don't need to be replaced. Even cars with spin-on transmission filters (some Subarus, Saturn S-series, etc) only require a filter replacement if it gets damaged. There is no combustion in the transmission.

Even before so-called "lifetime fluid" nobody ever changed the ATF anyway

Maybe you might like the ZF 8-speed? It has the filter integrated into a replaceable/disposable oil pan.

Also, Honda makes it very easy to change the fluid on their CVT

ZF6 had integrated filter in the pan and saw the light of the day first time in 1999.

 

[Wylie6G72]

GM almost made it "easy" to to the filter & fluid in the Canyon. No dipstick, which is a pain, and you have to unbolt the exhaust to drop the pan. Seems like if they cared at all about customer satisfaction, they could have routed the exhaust somewhere else besides directly across the end of the pan that has to drop straight down to clear the drain bolt tube.
But, customer satisfaction would also dictate a dipstick, so, it's pretty clear they want you to be forced to take it somewhere, unless you have your own lift and air tools.

 

[javacontour]

Only Ford/GM/Chrysler are stupid enough to not include a drain plug on their transmissions. Basically everyone else does. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, etc, all have drain plugs in their transmissions. The Saturn S-series has a drain plug because they were actually trying to compete, and overseas GM cars such as the Catera and Spark have one, and the transmissions they make for others (the 4L30 that BMW used, for example). Transmissions shared between Ford and Mazda have a drain plug on a Mazda but not on a Ford

Transmission filters don't do much and don't need to be replaced. Even cars with spin-on transmission filters (some Subarus, Saturn S-series, etc) only require a filter replacement if it gets damaged. There is no combustion in the transmission.

Even before so-called "lifetime fluid" nobody ever changed the ATF anyway

Maybe you might like the ZF 8-speed? It has the filter integrated into a replaceable/disposable oil pan.

Also, Honda makes it very easy to change the fluid on their CVT

Not sure you can speak with such absolutes.

I know our 2010 Altima had no drain plug on the CVT as I've twice dropped the pan and refilled the same volume as I removed.

I don't recall seeing a drain plug on the last couple of Toyotas I've had either. My 2017 RAV4 is getting close to 100k miles now, so I'll be looking.

I don't recall a drain plug on the 2002 Camry we had let alone the 2003 Corolla and 2004 Vibe we had.

The only vehicles with drain plugs on the transmissions/transaxles have been my manual transmissions machines.


The automatics have all been drop the pan to drain and refill.


Now I do believe some of the CVTs in the V6 Nissans have a drain plug, but our 4 cylinder Altima had no drain plug.

 

[doublebase]

Yeah, some are definitely easier to do than others. And they all seem to be different.

I owned a Honda for 17 years...no pan or filter replacement. Just pull the magnetic plug and drain. Refill. Thing lasted me 289,000 miles without issue.

And I’ve owned Toyota’s with no dipstick. A lot more work, but once you understand the procedures and fluid temperature check, it’s not too bad considering it’s only done every 50,000 miles or so.

I‘ve also owned Chevy trucks, and you have to pry bar the exhaust out of the way to get the pan off...if you aren’t aware of that it’s a very difficult/impossible job to do.

I’ve siphoned fluid from dipstick tubes...I’ve replaced filters, I haven’t replaced filters. The way I see it, as long as you change that fluid every 50,000 miles or so, you’re good. And honestly I just change it once a year. But yeah, they certainly design these things without a single care of the owner or the person doing the work.

 

[doublebase]

GM almost made it "easy" to to the filter & fluid in the Canyon. No dipstick, which is a pain, and you have to unbolt the exhaust to drop the pan. Seems like if they cared at all about customer satisfaction, they could have routed the exhaust somewhere else besides directly across the end of the pan that has to drop straight down to clear the drain bolt tube.
But, customer satisfaction would also dictate a dipstick, so, it's pretty clear they want you to be forced to take it somewhere, unless you have your own lift and air tools.
View attachment 56376

Yeah I tend to agree.

My Silverado was similar, except no drain plug...but they did give you the dipstick tube.

With the Silverado (2018), I was able to pry the exhaust down and get the pan out. In the end it didn’t really matter much - the 6 speed Silverado transmissions don’t like being mated to the AFM systems in these trucks and the torque converters fail, regardless of how easy you drive them, or how well you take care of them. Luckily for you, I don’t think the Canyons have the same problem.

 

[atikovi]

Only Ford/GM/Chrysler are stupid enough to not include a drain plug on their transmissions.

Nothing new about that. They want you to drop the pan to clean it and the magnet even if the filter is good. And I recall some Fords as late the 90's or maybe 80's even had a drain plug on the torque converter.

 

[bbhero]

Not sure you can speak with such absolutes.

I know our 2010 Altima had no drain plug on the CVT as I've twice dropped the pan and refilled the same volume as I removed.

I don't recall seeing a drain plug on the last couple of Toyotas I've had either. My 2017 RAV4 is getting close to 100k miles now, so I'll be looking.

I don't recall a drain plug on the 2002 Camry we had let alone the 2003 Corolla and 2004 Vibe we had.

The only vehicles with drain plugs on the transmissions/transaxles have been my manual transmissions machines.


The automatics have all been drop the pan to drain and refill.


Now I do believe some of the CVTs in the V6 Nissans have a drain plug, but our 4 cylinder Altima had no drain plug.

Yeah that's nuts...

No drain plug on the 4 cylinder Nissan and yet I have one a 6 cylinder VQ.

Glad I have a drain plug on it... Changed the fluid out now 5 times.

Almost 340,000 miles now.

Still pulls and runs very good. Heck... Hit 6,200 rpm today... Twice in fact. Passing vehicles on Rte 5.

 

[walterjay]

Define "Lifetime". Tires is 10 years. The rules are always changing....

When it breaks, that's the end of its life.

 

[Fifth87]

Nothing new about that. They want you to drop the pan to clean it and the magnet even if the filter is good. And I recall some Fords as late the 90's or maybe 80's even had a drain plug on the torque converter.

Chrysler had drain plugs on the torque converters through 1977. Still no pan plug though.

 

[JHZR2]

The main culprit are the old style systems where you need to drop the pan to get the fluid. Maybe in a shop it’s no biggie, it’s mainly that doing it on your back, in your driveway or garage, with any practically sized drain pan is a mess, or at least a hassle. Removing fluid via a topsider helps. A drain plug could do so much. I guess it was determined that folks are too dumb to have two drain plugs? The AT one just needs to be an Allen, that’s enough to turn folks off from messing with it...

 

[bbhero]

The main culprit are the old style systems where you need to drop the pan to get the fluid. Maybe in a shop it’s no biggie, it’s mainly that doing it on your back, in your driveway or garage, with any practically sized drain pan is a mess, or at least a hassle. Removing fluid via a topsider helps. A drain plug could do so much. I guess it was determined that folks are too dumb to have two drain plugs? The AT one just needs to be an Allen, that’s enough to turn folks off from messing with it...

I believe that you are on to something here... About the two drain plugs issue and people not being smart enough to tell the difference. I was at AZ near me and evidently this guy had drained his transmission fluid thinking it was his motor oil pan and proceeded to put motor oil back in his transmission. He caught his bonehead move in time it sounded like.

The lady working there at AZ asked me if I had ever even come close to doing that.. I told her heck no... She laughed quite hard at my response.

 

[fisher83]

I think the longer intervals and more difficult fluid change procedures may actually be beneficial to some degree if it encourages the quick lube places to leave them alone. I'm sure the manufacturers have been a burned a few times replacing transmissions under warranty that may not have failed if they hadn't been messed with.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I love how my Accord's transmission has a dipstick, fill plug, and drain plug!! My 3000GT was the same way. It had a dipstick, fill plug, and drain plug.

 

[4WD]

Where do you get your info? Lots of newer Toyotas (and other mfrs as well) have the silly standpipe thing in the trans pan requiring you to pump fluid UP and into the pan - which is not fun or convenient.

American vehicles that I've owned or leased that had an ATF drain plug and fill tube:
'02 Ford Escape, '09 Ford Fusion, '15 Cadillac SRX and '18 GMC Terrain.

Yeah, FWD’s in particular have a drain plug and fill cap. I just measure what comes out and that’s the volume in.
(if there has been no evidence of leaking) …

 

[4WD]

I love how my Accord's transmission has a dipstick, fill plug, and drain plug!! My 3000GT was the same way. It had a dipstick, fill plug, and drain plug.

I roll my eyes watching videos of guys on a lift with a laptop and someone else needs to shift gears while holding tongue to inside left cheek. Learned to appreciate the old school check hot dipstick marks.
On my GM trucks … have always added the B&M plug after first pan, filter, magnets done …
I swap 5 quarts every spring before the Texas heatwaves … half hour job, no ramps.

 

[R1jake]

Chrysler had drain plugs on the torque converters through 1977. Still no pan plug though.

FCC

Nothing new about that. They want you to drop the pan to clean it and the magnet even if the filter is good. And I recall some Fords as late the 90's or maybe 80's even had a drain plug on the torque converter.

yep my 94 Ford e150 5.8l e4od has a drain plug on the torque converter.

 

[MrLemonade]

I get the idea of the possible confusion of which is the oil pan and which is the transmission pan. I'll admit last summer in doing the first oil change on my new/used Tundra, I put the ratchet to the transmission pan and did a couple turns before it dawned on me that it's too far back to be the oil pan. So I tightened it again fully and moved to the oil pan.

This could easily be remedied by a stamping in the pan "Transmission" and "Oil" and/or a different size and/or color bolt head to avert any confusion.