Taking away license will simply lead to continue not driving with a license nor insurance. Unfortunately USA is heavily car dependent except select although populated areas. A requirement for gain employment as productive citizen .
Why aren't penalties stiffer for people who drive without a valid license/registration/insurance?
- Thread starter grampi
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I would say if a driver is caught driving on a suspended license, or without a valid registration or insurance for a second time, the state should have every right to confiscate the vehicle permanently. At that point it's obvious the driver fully intends to continue driving anyway, and past penalties have done nothing to improve the driver's learning curve...
Which is exactly why I say the state should have the right to take the vehicle away. People can't drive a vehicle they don't have. If they need their vehicles to work, then they should learn to obey the law...driving is a privilege, not a right...
How stiff do you want these penalties? That could backfire.
Back during the heyday of the cop-chase video shows on TV 20–30 years ago, it turned out that the majority of the chases started over something minor such as an expired license plate, expired driver's license, expired inspection, no insurance, etc. Those cops weren't normally chasing violent criminals, in other words, but people who got scared over silly stuff. The problem was that these chases often ended in wrecks that hurt or killed that scared driver or people in other vehicles.
Police agencies around the US, not all but many, changed policies about starting pursuits when that became known. Now a pursuit in those localities has to be over something serious or violent, such as a murder suspect fleeing. That might be why we're seeing the apparent leniency the OP claims. Getting more strict about the minor stuff might lead to more drivers getting scared and leading cops on a chase.
Back during the heyday of the cop-chase video shows on TV 20–30 years ago, it turned out that the majority of the chases started over something minor such as an expired license plate, expired driver's license, expired inspection, no insurance, etc. Those cops weren't normally chasing violent criminals, in other words, but people who got scared over silly stuff. The problem was that these chases often ended in wrecks that hurt or killed that scared driver or people in other vehicles.
Police agencies around the US, not all but many, changed policies about starting pursuits when that became known. Now a pursuit in those localities has to be over something serious or violent, such as a murder suspect fleeing. That might be why we're seeing the apparent leniency the OP claims. Getting more strict about the minor stuff might lead to more drivers getting scared and leading cops on a chase.
What do you mean by "getting scared?" If a person flees from an officer, they know it's wrong, which is why in most states it's a felony. Drivers who flee put themselves, as well as other drivers in danger. They're basically driving a weapon. I can see LEOs not chasing them if they can get their plate number. I don't see drivers who drive with suspended licenses, or no registration or insurance as minor stuff...this is the epidemic that's growing vastly around the country, and it needs to be gotten under control...letting people go for the "minor stuff" just encourages more of this behavior...
dnewton3
Staff member
Unless the LEO had contact with the driver and was able to ID the driver, there's no ability to know the reason for flight.
If the LEO simply initiates a traffic stop by turning on the lights, and the vehicle immediately flees, the LEO will often give chase (situationally dependent) because that driver might be an old lady who can't hear, or could be a murder suspect. And often, the drivers are already suspects of a crime (car jacking; theft; battery; etc) recently reported.
Example 1:
at 12:05 PM, a white male, approximately 18 years old with brown hair and a tattoo on left cheek, robs a liquor store at gunpoint and fled in a late model blue Camry. The crime is reported immediately and within minutes, several LEOs have saturated the area. One LEO sees a vehicle and driver matching the description and follows and calls for backup. The vehicle realizes it's being followed and flees at high speed. There's a very good reason to chase this suspect because the vehicle and driver match the criteria and are in the general area.
Example 2:
at 12:05 way across that same city, another LEO sees a vehicle run a stoplight. The vehicle does not match the robbery description. But the officer does attempt to initiate a traffic stop because running a red light is a dangerous behavior. The driver and vehicle are unknown, and have no discernable risk factors other than the traffic infraction. This vehicle also flees, because that driver has an expired driver's license. Fear motivated the driver to flee, but how does the LEO know what's in the driver's mind??? All he/she would have got was a ticket, which probably would have been waived had the drive simply renewed his license.
Whether or not the driver and/or vehicle are "known" to the officer, the mere act of flight via vehicle is a felony in most all states. That act in the presence of LEO is reason enough to pursue.
True story ... A long while back, a vehicle was traveling through our jurisdiction. There were some really dubious looking low-life dirtbags in the car. Upon seeing the car commit a traffic violation, the officer initiated a stop. The driver didn't have ID, but verbally gave criteria which didn't match his physical descriptors on the license return. The LEO called for backup; which arrived shortly. The driver was taken into custody for failing to identify himself (after several attempts to allow him to give the correct name and date of birth). But the passengers were going to be released. The passenger in the front seat refused to give ID; but he wasn't going to drive so there was no ability to "force" him to ID himself; he said he'd just "walk to the next town". That is ... until he flicked a cigarette butt outside the car. BINGO! Now a littering citation can be issued. He initially did the same thing; gave a bogus name and DOB. So he was detained in cuffs and a wallet was found on his person. After running the ID from his wallet, it was discovered he was wanted for murder out of another state !!! And once the driver was taken to jail, he also was wanted for drug trafficking after he gave his true identity to the book-in crew.
My point? Ya never know who's in the car and what their deal is until you get them in your grasp. Some generally innocent people do stupid things like flee. Some really nefarious people don't run. There is no "normal" when it comes to LEO work with the public. Every contact is a potential poop-show just waiting to explode.
well if LEO's can decide who they will write up and who they don't, they do control who gets charged.
I think the op has a misconception.
Wisconsin as an example relatively recently made insurance mandatory. Before it was mandatory despite being drink capital of the world had extremely high numbers of insuranced and moderately reasonable insurance costs.
Once insurance became mandatory the cost of insurance doubled overnight, and registrations dropped and each time as the state has attempted to get more road funding and insurance compliance the actual rate of insurance/ registration drops.
Every state I’m aware of that increases how draconian enforcement of insurance/registration is the net result is always lower compliance, lower collections and a more burdened expensive legal system.
The issue is a simple one, most of the population can’t actually afford the new egregious registration and insurance costs, despite being fully employed and needing a vehicle .
In every case I’ve seen any time people become very financially stressed where they can’t afford necessities
the first “necessities “ to go are always registration and insurance.
When states have cracked down on these unimportant crimes by working poor crushing cars and doing other draconian over-reactions to things that didn’t used to even be legally required the net result is even more non-compliance.
Now that we dug us into the hole of spending billions of dollars punishing minor crimes like insurance/ registration how do we reset to the way things were before these changes?
Owen Lucas
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I personally think many chases should be avoided unless something serious is going on i.e. kidnapping, shooting, imminent threat. For an expired registration / fake tags etc. lets use other alternatives:
https://www.starchase.com/
Upon initial contact, a tracking device should be attached to the vehicle via a bumper mounted GPS launcher or device the PO places on the vehicles body. This way the fugitive can be caught under more controlled circumstances with less risk to the public. Let the suspect think they are off the hook and not risk the public. I can imagine future tech that will allow the launch a drone to shadow a suspect vehicle.
Of course this tech is probably expensive so hopefully more federal dollars will be made available in the future.
I believe many police car cameras / computers are always scanning license plates and verifying registration and possibly insurance information. It's only a matter of time until badge cams will be able to integrate with an ID photo database and identify a suspect on the spot using facial recognition. No more of this, "I don't have to identify" arguments. What's funny is the AI will probably have increased facial recognition accuracy for criminals due to multiple mugshots on file lol.
https://www.flocksafety.com/devices/lpr
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I bet every single one of these people still have a $1000+ smart phone...
Imagine wanting to lock someone up for an expired registration
So that's really what it's about: Poor people should be punished for being poor.
Is it okay for poor people to not have insurance and not pay registration if they have a hand-me-down phone (which, like a car, is also an absolute necessity to live in America) or are there some other arbitrary measures that somebody is poor enough to gain your empathy?
How poor do you have to be for the government to not seize what little you have?
This. Officers also have marching orders on what to target and what to ignore. In my county, you can write on a piece of paper that your tag was stolen and you won’t be pulled over. You can have an expired tag that’s years old and you’re left alone. You can have no brake lights, no muffler, one headlight, bald tires, and be texted your boo holding up a 10 mile line of traffic and you have no worries. Although let the person speed 5 over while dropping their kids at school and/or on their way to honest work then you will have a speeding ticket jammed straight up your - oh well. You see, laws are for honest hard working people.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Lack of empathy is becoming epidemic.
Read the intake blotter for your local county lockup.
There'll be a revolving door of poor schmucks getting dragged in for failure to appear or failure to pay fines. They'll spend the night, go in front of a judge, then be released with a promise that they'll later appear in court or pay on some sort of schedule, which they then won't do.
You want to punish people, but punishments don't stick.
There'll be a revolving door of poor schmucks getting dragged in for failure to appear or failure to pay fines. They'll spend the night, go in front of a judge, then be released with a promise that they'll later appear in court or pay on some sort of schedule, which they then won't do.
You want to punish people, but punishments don't stick.
They’ll find another vehicle . How it works.
In most jurisdictions there are consequences for motor vehicle infractions.
One can't simply walk away with a smile on one's lips and a song in his heart.
In most cases, those caught up are not the mostly fortunate folks who post here.
They are those who are living hand to mouth and they are usually not what we would consider criminals.
A car is a necessity in most US metros while the ability to pay everything involved in driving one is considered a privilege.
One can't simply walk away with a smile on one's lips and a song in his heart.
In most cases, those caught up are not the mostly fortunate folks who post here.
They are those who are living hand to mouth and they are usually not what we would consider criminals.
A car is a necessity in most US metros while the ability to pay everything involved in driving one is considered a privilege.
There's been a number of high profile accidents in Denver over the last few years. One guy hit a vehicle with four people in it causing fatalities. I think he's getting 40 years. Colorado gave out I think the news said 200 tickets for late or expired registration the first week of January.
The lawbreaking scum can use Public transportation or bum a ride from friends \relatives. Or ride a bike/scooter etc. I have no sympathy. I am on a very tight budget and my insurance, registration and drivers license are a priority. Pay up or do not drive. Just my 2cents
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